Lisa Parrish is the owner of GLP Investments, LLC, an acquisitions company that identifies and acquires multifamily properties in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Texas. In this episode, she shares why she and her husband transitioned to third-party property management after doing it themselves for years, her advice for finding the right business partners, and how learning things the hard way along her journey has ultimately benefited her.
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TRANSCRIPT
Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed, and I'm here with Lisa Parrish. Lisa is joining us from Tucson, Arizona. She's the owner of GLP Investments, which is an acquisitions company that identifies and acquires multifamily properties in North and South Carolina and in Texas. Currently, Lisa and her husband, Greg, are GPs of over 3,200 units across 26 properties. Lisa, can you start us off with a little bit more about your background, and what you're currently focused on?
Lisa Parrish: Sure. Thank you so much for having me. And just a little correction, that 3,200 units is really what we've acquired over the years; we have sold off several of those properties, especially over the last couple of years, because it's been a really great market for selling.
Slocomb Reed: Of course, right?
Lisa Parrish: And then we've taken the money and we've redeployed into a few different things... We're actually doing a little bit of new development, but do you want me to kind of just give you a quick rundown of our story?
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, absolutely.
Lisa Parrish: Okay, so my husband and I were realtors in the early 2000s in Tucson, Arizona, and did really well, thought it would last forever... I'm sure a lot of people in real estate can relate to that feeling, and even though people warned us that it was about to end. And in 2007-2008 we found ourselves basically unemployed, because when the market crashed, you couldn't get anyone approved for a loan, you couldn't get a house sold, foreclosures all over the place... So we decided to make a move, and at the same time, I actually heard an advertisement [00:02:11.00] multifamily guru, and something compelled me to go out and listen to him. And even though we were pretty much broke at the time, because again, both of us were realtors, I talked to my husband into spending $3,000 in plane tickets and everything to go out to Boston, to go see Dave Lindahl. And once we did, we were just hooked. Multifamily just made so much sense. Regardless of what kind of market you're in, it just made so much sense to us.
So we went into a coaching program... Long story short, we raised money to purchase our first apartment complex, and it was in North Carolina, because it was an emerging market, and Tucson or Arizona was not. So we decided to buy a small apartment complex; that apartment complex couldn't afford property management, and we needed a job. So we decided "Let's go be property managers." And we moved our two young kids at the time out to North Carolina, thought "We'll just do it as an adventure." We knew no one, had no money had no friends, or family, or nothing. But we just took a chance and moved out there.
Our first apartment complex was 23 units, it was mostly Hispanics that spoke Spanish... And even though we're an hour from the border of Mexico, we didn't speak Spanish... So we would go to them, I would knock on doors to collect rent, I took cash, I did all kinds of things wrong, and my husband did maintenance. It was definitely a learning experience, and not anything that I would ever recommend. But we did it the hard way, but we started to build relationships. And before we knew it, we had a few different sellers, who got into trouble, and needed help, and we did some creative financing and ended up building up a portfolio of about 100 units and managing it ourselves.
So when you're managing yourself, 100 units is a lot. We brought in some staff, and we thought "Okay, we're doing okay. We own most of the apartment complex, we have a little bit of investors", but we also wanted to be involved with our kids' lives and have some freedom. And what we realized was we were working our butts off for 100 units, and we wanted to scale up. And what we learned - and this is what Dave Lindahl teaches, we just weren't listening - was multifamily is a team sport. And what we realized is that we need to bring in other people to handle some of the stuff that we just didn't have time to do, one being third party management. We just were so controlling it was hard to let go.
But once we brought in a good third party management company, and then we partnered up with some good partners - we went through a couple bad partnerships in between, but I'll fast-forward to when we found a good partnership... And basically, my husband and I had built great relationships in North Carolina; one of the reasons we moved there was to be local, because it's the good old boys in the Carolinas and the South; you kind of have to be local. They don't really want to work with the outsiders. So we were part of the locals, and they would work with us.
Well, our partners that we had met up with, that raised money - that's Ryan Willie and Tyler Devereaux, with Multifamily Capital Partners - we met up with them and they were raising money, and they were trying to get into the Carolinas, but they couldn't, because they were outsiders... And we have all these relationships, but we just didn't have time to go and raise money and do all the networking. So when we met up together, it was like puzzle pieces fitting together; they raised money, we were able to bring in the deals, and we went from a couple hundred units to thousands within a year or so. So that's kind of how we got into the big leagues; that was in 2017.
So over the last several years we've been acquiring deals with them, and third party management, been able to build up the portfolio... And my husband and I, at this point, because we sold off a lot of our property last year, we did really well, we're now starting to buy land, and do some new development... But this is really the best part of my story, I believe, is that when you're starting, you make a goal of how many units you want to buy, or how much money you want to make. And of course, we did that. So we had a certain goal for money, and then our goal for units was 1,000 units. We thought, "Oh my gosh, how are we ever going to get to that? That seems so huge." And then we did, and we raised it to 2,000, and we hit there, we hit 3,000... And I just felt like I'm not feeling that amazing. Like, yeah, it's great, I'm out of debt, I have money, but I wasn't feeling that inner feeling of satisfaction in my life... And then we started doing some mentoring, and helping people, giving some of the knowledge that we have back to some students. Like I told you, Ryan and Tyler, my partners, they have Multifamily Mindset, they have an education company. And so I started helping some of their students, and I would have students tell me, "Oh, my gosh, Lisa, you've changed my life. You've changed the trajectory of my life. You've done this for me, that for me", and I just would get the goosebumps all over. And then I realized that's what it was all about. To me, it's all about, yeah, you can make the money, get yourself out of debt, be in a good situation, but then don't just sit on it; you have to take that knowledge and all the mistakes and everything that we've learned, and give it back. And now that I'm giving it back, it's the most rewarding thing ever. And I'm really doing this podcast just to be able to help people in some way, not necessarily for myself. So that's my story.
Slocomb Reed: That's a great story, and you've given me a lot of questions already. I kind of want to work backwards. Awesome that you're involved in mentoring, helping people change their lives. Of course, that's a calling for a lot of people, you and me included. You were setting unit goals of 1,000, and then 2,000, and then 3,000. And I will say, as an active owner-operator, I see the unit counts and the asset under management numbers that a lot of people share, especially in the syndication space... And my third-grade reading level self wants to ask the question, "What do those numbers really mean?" Because 1,000 units is a very different count when you are a capital raiser or an asset manager in a general partnership, where the vast majority of returns are going to your limited partners. It's a very different number, when you are a limited partner who has brought $50,000 or $100,000 to a fund that has acquired 1,000 units. It's a very different number when you are an active operator who has just acquired those, and has your 20% equity, and it's a very different number when you own 1,000 units free and clear, as I know some people who do.
So I want to ask about those 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 unit goals - when you were hitting those, what were those numbers for you? I know you said your first 100 units was almost entirely self-owned, and also self managed. What did your business look like when you were hitting those numbers?
Lisa Parrish: That's a great question. I've never had anyone ask me that question. I feel like the 1,000, 2,000 is really an arbitrary number. I know that some people translate that to money, but you're right, it really depends. For us, we are limited partners in all of our deals, but we're not limited partners in other people's deals. And I know there's a lot of people that do both. I'm kind of a control freak, so it's hard for me to put my money somewhere where I can't touch it. And if something's going on, I want to be able to fly out there and do something about it.
So we're GPs on every deal that we've ever done, some a lot more than others, but most of the time the majority -- not majority; at a minimum, we are sharing with Ryan and Tyler 50/50. And we're sharing all GP decisions. So for us, that was really important.
But it started out - our goal was $10,000 a month was our original goal. And the problem is that as you start making that money, then the spending goes up. And we always have the philosophy - and I don't recommend this, but this is us... Everyone would tell us around us "Go on a budget. You're spending too much money." And we thought "No, we just need to make more money. We need to keep up with the way that we want to spend money." So we try to make sure that we're investing more of our money, and we'll invest into our own deals as much as we can. But it was $20,000 a month, $30,000 a month, $50,000 a month. Before we knew it, we weren't really even looking at what we were making monthly anymore, because of acquisition fees; and then once we started selling deals, then the problem becomes we have too much money. Now we need to figure out what to do with it. So we started dumping money into land.
So personally, we're debt-free, and we own a bunch of land debt-free, and that's what we really wanted, was to not have debt personally. Of course, our properties we want to leverage as much as possible, but personally, we didn't want to have credit card debt, or any kind of debt. We wanted to have good amount of -- I don't really want to throw around like real numbers, because I feel like that's bragging... But we needed to make sure that we had a good amount of money for liquidity, to be able to sponsor deals.
And now I'm really happy where we are, because we're still doing deals very slowly, selectively, when we want to, when we feel like it, when we're helping somebody... Our sons are in the business; they're 20, and 23. So because they're getting into the business, of course, they're so motivated to do deals. So when we do deals, we want to make sure we're bringing them in, we're mentoring, we're helping somebody... I don't really want to do it to just grow our bank account. Even our boys, they could just sit back, do nothing and inherit all of our money and be fine. But they don't want that. They want to build their own fortune. So it's more about the practice of what we're doing at this point than the money, and being able to sponsor people or help people.
I don't know that doesn't really answer your question. I don't really have a literal translation from 1,000 units to this amount of money, though. It's very arbitrary, really.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, it is. And that wasn't necessarily the answer that I was seeking, but that's where my question came from. For those of our listeners who are already in the industry, there are a lot of vanity numbers. And there are a lot of arbitrary milestones. And when you hear that someone has thousands of doors, or hundreds of millions of dollars in assets under management, that means very different things for very different investors.
Lisa Parrish: I've had students do that, where they actually have more units than we do. But I know the truth. So the truth for us is we are GPs on every deal. We control, sometimes with partners, every deal; we're sponsors in every deal. And we're not just investing. But I've seen that - people that invest their money into a deal. They're not really a part of the deal, but they call that -- I don't really think that counts.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah. There was a time at which you self-managed, and you self-managed up to 100 doors. And you called yourself a control freak... I'm an apartment owner-operator, self-manager; I fall into that same category in a lot of ways. When and why did you transition to third party management?
Lisa Parrish: Because we knew that we wanted to grow our business, and we were working IN our business. I don't know if you read the book, and I would suggest everyone reads the book, E-Myth, or E-Myth Revisited, where it talks about you're working IN your business. If you own a bakery, and you're the one that's baking or helping the clients, you're really working in your business. You just bought yourself a business.
So I was a soccer manager for my kids' soccer teams, my husband was coaching, and we prioritize that. But besides that, we were just running ourselves ragged, and we knew we wanted to grow the business and the portfolio without being so bogged down. So really, we started listening... Dave Lindahl teaches this from the beginning. But we started listening, that you can delegate the daily tasks. So we finally found a property management company... They're not really prevalent anymore. But when I met with them - this was in 2016 or '17 - I told them I'm a control freak, I told them that I'd been managing my own properties... We actually had gotten up to 222 units when we were managing. I kind of missed - there was a 138-unit property that we bought. I think that's what put us over the edge, where it was just like, "Okay, this is too much." But I told the CEO of the company, "I don't want to do the daily tasks. We need a manager, but I'm still wanting to know what's going on, I still want to be a big part of it."
So we transitioned from property management to asset management. So we didn't walk away from our properties. I still can't. Now we have an asset manager, and so we're overseeing the asset manager who asset-manages for us... But still, my husband and I are still involved daily, we still look at what's going on, but we're just more in the background now for problems, and then we'll visit quarterly. We used to visit weekly, at least monthly. So definitely pulling ourselves back.
But yeah, we wanted to be able to have a life, and we wanted to be able to do more acquisitions. And if you're busy managing properties or dealing with tenants, you can't have more acquisitions. Because dealing with tenants is the worst part of this business. It's the reason that we started out buying a duplex and a triplex, and all that stuff, and doing everything yourself. You have to, because you can't afford management at that point. That is the reason people don't want to be landlords, because if you're dealing with toilets and tenants that don't pay it... And I used to do my own evictions, which I'm glad I did; I kind of liked it. But I don't have time for that... Just waste four hours sitting in court... It's like watching TV. It's kind of cool, but... We just realized that time is money, it's important for us if we want to scale up and have a life, this is the right way to do it. And the right way to do it is bring in partners, bring in a management company, be good at what you do, which for us was broker relations, being able to bring in deals, negotiating contracts, negotiating deals, and overseeing everybody. And that is such a much better life, not having to be bogged down.
Break: [00:14:56.21] to [00:16:00.20]
Slocomb Reed: Lisa, let me see if I can summarize what you just shared in my own words for our listeners, and let me know if I hit the nail on the head. Or if I'm completely wrong, please correct me.
Lisa Parrish: Okay.
Slocomb Reed: You hit a point in business were 220-some-odd doors, self-managed - you recognized that there were new constraints on your time, and you needed to figure out the best way to use the time that you had available professionally, given the family commitments, the things you wanted to be able to do for your children, the things you wanted to be able to do for your community... And you decided to make your focus acquisitions, because with syndication, both in the short run with acquisition fees, but also in the long run, acquisitions was the most lucrative and focused way to use your time. You can go from property manager to asset manager and still have control, and in a decision-making position for the portfolio. The focus on how to use your time though became acquisitions, because - well, you had planted yourselves in North Carolina, you were local, and you had access to deals that outsiders couldn't get to... But also, acquisitions was the one thing for you all that would lead to the kind of lifestyle, wealth freedom that you guys wanted to have. Is that correct?
Lisa Parrish: Yeah, that's exactly correct. You only have so much time in the day, and I believe that everyone should figure out what they're good at and what they like doing. Most of the time, that's the same thing. And we realized that we were good at broker relations. I've been a broker a long time, I can relate to brokers, I understand how they think... And we were able to make these great relationships, including making friendships with them... And we were able to get inside deals, where - obviously, they're not giving us the deal, so it's up to the seller, but they're able to recommend to the seller to work with us, because they know we're easy to work with, we do what we say we're going to do, we always close the deals, we don't retrade... So yeah, that was what we were able to focus on.
And money-raising - we were good at doing that, but that takes a lot of time. When you're a money raiser, you have to be networking constantly. And that was just not something that we would argue at night, like "No, you go to the networking event. No, you go. I'm tired." That was just not us. And Ryan and Tyler, our partners, that's all they did. Like, that was their favorite thing to do. They were amazing at it. Everyone loves them and knows them. So raising money was easy for them. So if they focus on money raising, and we focus on acquisitions, filling in the rest is easy enough. And we always filled in the rest with each other. Now we're hiring people to fill in the rest.
But yeah, those are the two main things for us, that I believe -- acquisition, finding the deals, finding the money. You can hire people to do the other stuff. But yeah, I think what you summarized is correct. Time is important. And I still find myself a lot of times in the weeds, where I'm like, "You know what, I need to have my asset manager handling this, or the property managers", we tell the property managers, or the regional managers... We have the property manager, and then the regional manager over them, and then the asset manager between all of them... Unless there's a really big several thousand dollar deal, we don't really need to be involved in every little thing. But we do set up like group chats and stuff so that I can see what's going on.
I've had situations where a couple months go by, something's going on, and they don't tell you. And I don't like that. I don't like to know a couple months later something that I should have known a couple of months ago, where the solution would have been much easier had I known when I should have. So I like to know what's going on. I may not be involved in every little thing, but I just like to know. So we do weekly reports, monthly reports, daily little updates, we do weekly calls... But that really doesn't take up a whole lot of my time. It's not the same as actually, every day --
Slocomb Reed: Especially when you get to the point that you can systematize those conversations, and you know going in what the conversation needs to be.
Lisa Parrish: Exactly.
Slocomb Reed: Lisa, you have a breadth of experience here in multifamily, and have seen some significant success... You've also done a lot of things the hard way. What I want to ask before we transition into the last segment of the show, given the difficult experiences that you've had, the times that you had to do things the hard way, or the times that you did things the hard way when it wasn't necessary - having the hindsight that you have now, what are the things that were difficult in the moment, that you really should have delegated, given away or simply not done? And what were the hard things that you had to do along the way that you are grateful were hard, because you needed the experience of having done them?
Lisa Parrish: I think the answer to both those questions is really the same, because - I always say, we were property managers for seven years. That's a long time. And we probably would have 10,000 units if we were really on the path that we've been on over the last four or five years, if we continued with that to this point. It's not about units, again; that's arbitrary. And I also feel like a lot of the opportunities that we had came from the experiences of us being property managers. So I don't suggest that people do it, because I think that that is the slowest way to get anywhere, and you obviously want to make enough money to be able to keep reinvesting it so that you can get that cash flow machine going, the sooner, the better, because we only have so much time in our life. But when I look back on it, as a property manager, my husband in maintenance, the stuff that we learned was really amazing, when transitioning to an asset manager. Property management companies can't BS us. We know how it's supposed to look, we know how it's supposed to be, so it's really helped us, because there's a lot of owners out there that have no idea about property management, so a property management company can tell them anything. And either they're going to disagree with everything, because it doesn't make sense to them, or they're just going to go along with it, and trust the property management company when they shouldn't.
So having gone through, and going through -- like I just talked about, going to eviction court, literally, you spend three or four hours listening to father evict their son, and some sob story [00:22:13.11] So it was really a lot of time - I don't want to say wasted, because it's learning, but not the best use of my time. So had I known all that, maybe I would have still done a lot of it, but sped it up and not waited seven years. We really waited a long time, where we should have brought in third-party management. We did interview a couple of them, and we just felt like, "Oh gosh, these guys are just gonna rip us off; they're gonna charge us for this, and that, and whatever." So it took a long time till we got to a point where we found the right management company that fit us.
Sometimes I do feel like as long as you're doing your best to move your life forward, and your business forward, some things really do happen the way that they're supposed to... Because, like I said, a lot of the experiences that we have are some of the reasons that Ryan and Tyler wanted to work with us, is because we had all that property management experience that translated to asset management. It made us valuable. So even though we sort of wasted some time and could have had more units, the knowledge that we gained over those years - we didn't waste it. And we know a lot more about property management than most owners do because of going through the weeds, like we did for so long.
So I actually don't regret it... When I'm trying to give advice to others, I want to help people avoid some mistakes that we made, so I would tell them that it's better for you when you start out, if you can, to hire the third party management, but still be a very involved asset manager, where you're learning what's going on, but really focus and figure out what you're the best at, and really focus on that... Because the sooner that you can focus on your niche, and almost like have tunnel vision to that... Of course you have to pay attention to those around you, because your management company [unintelligible 00:23:49.20] You have to pay attention to what's going on around you, but the sooner that you can focus on what you're really good at, the sooner that you will be able to really see true progress and success in your life. That's what happened with us. Once we started focusing, everything changed; like I said, hundreds to thousands really quickly. And less work, really. More money, less work. That's the goal, right?
Slocomb Reed: Absolutely. Well, Lisa, are you ready for the best ever lightning round?
Lisa Parrish: Yes.
Slocomb Reed: What is the best ever book you've recently read?
Lisa Parrish: I don't read a lot of the latest books, but Think and Grow Rich was my first book that I read 20 years ago, and it was what opened my eyes to just entrepreneurialship, and... It's such a motivating book. I think anyone who hasn't read it lately should reread that book. It's so awesome. And I really love, like I said before, E-Myth, and E-Myth Revisited. I love that book, because I always recommend people -- because I see people who buy a business, or a restaurant or something, and they're the ones that are doing whatever it is. They're the manager, or whatever.
Slocomb Reed: They bought a job, yeah.
Lisa Parrish: Yeah. And, I mean, you can build several restaurants, and make so much more money if you're not the one that's actually there taking reservations, and all that stuff. So I really like to have people read that book. And then of course, the lamest answer ever, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, because everybody says it... But it's true. It's just such a good book. I gave it to my niece, she's 15. It's an easy read.
Slocomb Reed: It's a great eye-opener, yeah.
Lisa Parrish: It is.
Slocomb Reed: For sure. Those are all books that I've gone back to multiple times myself. What is your best ever way to give back?
Lisa Parrish: Like I said, Before, I love to mentor others. I love to find students who are motivated. I'm very, very, very picky with who I will work with. I don't want to waste my time. There's some people out there who want you to do everything for them... So if I find people, and I have a few of them that are working really hard, and doing everything that they can to find success, I want to be able to help them avoid mistakes, I want to be able to partner them up with my sons, and do what I can to be able to, again, help them avoid losing money, and try to help them get their first deal. We've helped a lot of people get their first deal. Once you get your first deal, it's so much easier after that.
Slocomb Reed: Lisa, what is the biggest mistake you've made, and the best ever lesson that resulted from it?
Lisa Parrish: I kind of skipped over this part, but we did go through a bad partnership before we found Ryan and Tyler. So when we decided that we wanted to do this as a team sport, and we partnered up with people for the wrong reason; we didn't listen to our gut, that these weren't really the best people. We did it because they had money; we didn't really have money, and we wanted to get to the next level. They said "You don't have to bring in earnest money", because we knew more than they did. "Just teach us what you know. We'll bring in the money. Let's partner up on some deals." And we ended up doing three deals with them. We're still kind of stuck in two of them, that have caused us a lot of trouble, and they ended up not being good people, and being a very bad partnership.
So one of the things that I try to help people also to understand is, don't partner with people you don't know, and make sure that you're very careful and picky on who you will work with. Your values need to align. And the type of people you are need to align. We care about our reputation. Some people don't. If they don't care about their reputation, that's a huge red flag. And don't let money blind you when it comes to working with people, because you could get stuck for a long time.
Slocomb Reed: Lisa, on that note, what's your best advice?
Lisa Parrish: Make sure that you have a good mentor, or mentors, to help you make some decisions. Sometimes you think that you're doing the right thing; you need to be working with someone who has experienced, who's done what you want to do. Look at the people who have what you want. The people who have done what you want to do, and follow their path. Don't try to make your own path, like we did. Don't try to figure it all out the hard way, because what's the point of doing that? It's like reinventing the wheel. You go through so much more hardships when you do it that way. Link on to someone who knows what you want to know, and listen to them. I think that's just huge. And we didn't do that. That was one of the mistakes we made. We had a coach, we didn't listen. You could still end up in the same place. You could still be successful, but do you want to do it the easy way, or the hard way?
Slocomb Reed: Lastly, Lisa, where can people get in touch with you?
Lisa Parrish: Facebook. I'm really just on Facebook. Lisa L. Parrish. Or my website, glpinvestmentsnc.com. And you can email me from there. Not a huge emailer, but if you can get me on Facebook and iMessage me, that's my favorite way to communicate.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. The link to Lisa's Facebook is in the show notes. Lisa, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well for tuning in. If you've gained value from this episode, please do subscribe to our show. Leave us a five star review and share this episode with a real estate investor friend who needs to hear this conversation about learning how to do things the easy way, to be able to gain accelerated growth. Thank you, and have a best ever day.
Lisa Parrish: Thank you so much. I hope I was able to provide value, and Multifamily Mindset is an education company that can help you be able to learn multifamily, if you're interested.
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