At 20 years old, Jeffrey Donis is on the fast track to success in the commercial real estate space alongside his two brothers. Through self-education, networking, and exceptional ambition, they broke into the multifamily space in early 2021. Today, the brothers have three deals under their belt and are working on their fourth. In this episode, Jeffrey discusses what drew him and his brothers to commercial real estate, how they were able to scale so quickly, and what they hope to accomplish.
It All Started with YouTube
Seriously. Jeffrey’s older brother Kenneth saw a YouTube video that featured a wholesaler as a guest, and he was intrigued. He told Jeffrey and Jeffrey’s twin brother Kerwin about it, and the three began watching more videos to learn about wholesaling. The videos led to podcasts, which led to books, which eventually led to taking action in January of 2020. After one year of wholesaling and flipping, however, the brothers were ready to take on something bigger.
How They Scaled
“We just kept hearing: ‘Go big sooner,’ Jeffrey recalls. “And people kept saying, ‘I wish I would have started sooner.’” He and his brothers decided to take this advice and make the leap from single-family to multifamily investing. They soon found partners through Think Multifamily, who they have worked with on three deals to date.
“Obviously they’re more experienced than we are, and I have no shame in saying that,” Jeffrey says. “I’m obviously a lot newer to the space than most people in the group, so what we do really well is build a great network. We have the ability to build a strong team around us. Mark Kenney, who leads that group, he’s going to be on any deal we do for the time being.” Eventually, however, he hopes he and his brothers will be able to take on their own deals without having to bring on other GPs.
Their Vision for the Future
“Our big why, the reason we got into real estate in the first place was because we wanted to retire our mom,” Jeffrey says. While they haven’t retired her yet, he says it’s on track to happen soon.
Beyond that, the brothers plan to create an empire together through multifamily syndication by continuing to build their portfolio. “People always think it’s harder to get into commercial, which it is, but I think if someone our age can get into deals eventually, that’s just going to roll onto itself and grow, and that’s how we’ve been able to do it so far.”
Jeffrey Donis | Real Estate Background
- Head of Investor Relations at Donis Investment Group, which syndicates apartment complexes typically over 100 units. They target value-add, B- and C-class assets in GA, NC, and FL mainly.
- Portfolio: GP of 636 units across three properties
- Based in: Durham, NC
- Say hi to him at:
- donisinvestmentgroup.com
- @donisbrothers on all social platforms
- Best Ever Book: Think Like A Monk by Jay Shetty
Greatest lesson: The only thing holding you back is you.
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TRANSCRIPT
Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I'm Slocomb Reed and I'm here with Jeffrey Donis. Jeffrey is joining us from Durham, North Carolina. He's an apartment syndicator targeting value-add B and C class deals in North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Within his general partnership, he's focused on investor relations. They currently have three deals under management totaling over 600 units. Jeffrey, can you start us off with a little bit more about your background and what you're currently focused on?
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah, for sure. Quick background. I got into real estate not that long ago, a few years ago. Started in the single-family space, did some wholesaling, and creative financing, did a fix and flip... I invest with my two brothers. I have a twin brother, and then my older brother. He's Kenneth, he's 23. I'm 20. Got into it while we were in college. Eventually, he left after we got our first wholesale deal. It was 2020 of January when we ended up going full-time into multifamily. We just burned the bridges on single-family, and eventually were able to get into three deals so far. Working on our fourth, as we speak.
Slocomb Reed: Let me see if I can put lines between some of those dots, Jeffrey. You said you're 20 currently.
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah.
Slocomb Reed: Okay. It was a little over two years ago now that you left college when you got your first wholesale deal done, and decided to go from single-family wholesaling to get into commercial multifamily in January of 2020.
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah. January of 2020 was when we started real estate going into wholesaling. A year later after that, January 2021 was when we got into multifamily.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Did you do your first wholesale deal with your brothers?
Jeffrey Donis: Yes.
Slocomb Reed: The three of you do your first wholesale deal in late 2019, early 2020, decide to leave college, COVID happens, and you continue wholesaling. Early 2021, you decide to go from single-family to apartment syndication?
Jeffrey Donis: Correct.
Slocomb Reed: Are you and your brothers the entire general partnership?
Jeffrey Donis: No, we have partners. We joined a group called Think Multifamily. That's where we found those partners.
Slocomb Reed: Cool. So you're still involved with your two brothers. I know that you told me before the recording, Jeffrey, that you focus on investor relations. Is that what your brothers are focused on as well?
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah. My older brother Kenneth does the acquisition. He's going out toward the properties, meeting with the brokers, and building those relationships. Kerwin does the marketing behind it, and that entails a lot of things like social media, which we're pretty active on, as well as our YouTube channel, and then our podcast. We're looking for our own deal here in North Carolina. Once we find that, we'll hop on the asset management. But as of now, our partners have been the ones handling the asset management.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. So you've found some partners through Think Multifamily. Those partners, do they do the acquisitions, as well as now handling the asset management?
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah, they did.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. And you guys raised capital for those three deals?
Jeffrey Donis: Yes.
Slocomb Reed: Nice. This is a pretty quick ascension into GP-ing apartments indications. Considering that just over a year ago now, you were getting into single-family wholesales.
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah. I'm sure you're familiar with all the podcasts that we've been listening to. We just kept hearing, "go big sooner", and people kept saying, "I wish I would have started sooner." We always had the same mindset. When we were first getting into real estate, there were limiting beliefs we had to overcome, and we applied the same type of mindset to multifamily. We always thought we were too young, we didn't have any money, we had no experience, which were all true at the time. But we were like, "You know what? If there's a will, there's a way. We can do it." We ended up just deep-diving into it; not really exactly knowing how we would figure it out, but everything worked out.
Slocomb Reed: That's awesome. So you guys raised capital for the three deals that you partnered with other members of Think to take down. You're now looking at, effectively, you and your brothers, your partners, on putting together your own syndications in-house?
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah, exactly. We plan on still partnering with those partners in Think, just because of the value they bring. Obviously, they're more experienced than we are. I've no shame in saying that. I'm obviously a lot newer to the space than most people in the group. What we do really well is building a good network, we have the ability to build a strong team around us. Mark Kenney, who leads that group, he's going to be on any deal we do for the time being. Eventually, we'll be able to take down deals, we do not necessarily have to bring on any other GPs.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Jeffrey, I'd like to take this interview in a direction that I definitely wasn't expecting five minutes ago. You're 20 now, your twin brother is 20, your older brother is 23. I want to ask you about your goals. What is the end result of commercial real estate investing that you guys are looking towards?
Jeffrey Donis: Our big why, the reason we got into real estate in the first place was that we wanted to retire our mom, a single mother, coming from a low-income background. Growing up, I knew that we didn't have a lot of money just based on the reality of things. I didn't know how I would make that change. I thought going to school and getting a job would be the best way, but I read this book up here on my left, which is Rich Dad Poor Dad, and it changed the paradigm and my mindset. So I igured out I can do that through real estate. We got into it. We still haven't retired her, but we'll do that soon. That was the initial goal. Eventually, really, one is for me to live life by design, where I can choose what I do with my time. But also, there are a lot of things that we want to do to help people.
I was in Guatemala before we actually got into real estate, which is where my mom is from. It's a very low-income village where she's from. It really just showed us the opportunities that we had here. We were not making the most of it at the time, so when we got back, that's why we got started. The reason I bring it up is that I read a book called Room to Read. I'm not sure if you've read that book.
Slocomb Reed: I don't know.
Jeffrey Donis: I forget the author's name. It's a book called Room to Read; it's leaving Microsoft to change the world. It's about a non-profit called Room to Read. They pretty much start like libraries and schools in third world countries like Guatemala. There's no organization there in Guatemala for now, but we want to start that, and help people like that. I think education is really the key. For us, it's helped us so much, self-education specifically.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, side note. I'll let the producers decide whether or not this actually goes in the episode that airs. Where in Guatemala is your mom from?
Jeffrey Donis: Nueva Santa Rosa. It's not a big place. Three hours from the capitall.
Slocomb Reed: Which direction?
Jeffrey Donis: Honestly, I'd be lying if I told you I knew.
Slocomb Reed: My wife has been working for non-profits that sponsor education programs in Guatemala for the last almost 10 years at this point, which is why I ask. If she were here, she could tell you where that is. But yeah, very familiar. Cool. Jeffrey, let me be a contrarian... Given that this is the Best Ever podcast, that we have a very sophisticated audience of commercial real estate investors... Single-family wholesaling is easier. Why don't you just keep doing that to generate the income to retire your mom?
Jeffrey Donis: Honestly, it was very transactional. We were spending a lot of money on marketing. Granted, we were making a lot of money too, but it was just not really what we want it to be long-term. We knew what the long-term goal was, which was commercial real estate, for the reason of it being scalable. For us, it was just something that we always wanted to do in the long term. We were like, "Why not start now?" We understood we can make a lot of money here, but we're so young. We have the ability to just do what we want right now, versus waiting.
At the end of the day, it wasn't about the money. I honestly didn't enjoy doing wholesaling. It just wasn't something that made me excited for the day, versus this. I actually look forward to the day now. Personally, that's kind of why we chose this. The long-term goal was to produce passive income. Wholesaling is the opposite, in my opinion. It's just transactional, we're spending so much money and time, and it's a grind. But with commercial real estate, you can produce passive income.
Slocomb Reed: With commercial real estate, you can produce passive income. Being a general partner, finding and structuring value-add apartment syndication deals is not exactly passive, though. And there are a lot more moving parts than single-family wholesaling. What is it about apartment syndication that drew you in?
Jeffrey Donis: Honestly, it was, like I said - there was one person we kept listening to, which is Grant Cardone. He just said, "Go big." To be honest with you, we just really want to build the type of dynasty to pass on to our future generations. I didn't see that in wholesaling and single-family. I knew that we could get into one property, there are 100 doors. In our group, we do target larger assets, so being able to get into one deal and not have to deal with 100 different transactions... It'd just be one property, one closing. That's something that excited us. We were like, "Obviously, it's going to be hard work to find one deal. But once you do get that deal, that's when the show really starts." We were able to just pick up on that after that.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, I am a buy and hold apartment investor, primarily apartments; I've dabbled in other things. I'm flipping the single-family house right now that I probably shouldn't be, but I'll make a little money. This episode of the podcast is not necessarily the platform for my questions, but I want to ask you - because of your single-family wholesaling background and because of your goal to develop passive income, as a long-term buy-and-hold investor, I'm going for cash flow and I'm going for the kind of wealth that can be passed on to future generations. Those are very important for me, and those are goals that you just articulated. I use my words, you use your words. I think we're saying the same thing here.
With the deals that you are looking to do, I know with the first three, you are JV-ing with other people who have some experience; good on you for doing it that way, of course. That's how everyone should get into apartment syndication, is connecting with people who have experience, who have a track record, and providing value both to them, and in your case, to the investors that you're bringing into the deal, presenting them with a quality opportunity. At the end of the day, for me, an apartment syndication underwritten to a defined hold period with a sale of the end, to me that feels like a long, complicated, profitable flip that's still a flip. So are you going to apartment syndication for long-term passive income? Am I missing something here?
Jeffrey Donis: I would say it's more so just that, one, the cash flow that the property producers. As a general partner, you can get that cash flow. Also, you get to build equity. For me, one, the reason we got into it was that this is the ultimate goal, was to get into the space because we understood that's how we can scale faster. We want to build a portfolio, that's the second thing. But it just being something that was more attractive to us; like I said, it was something that made more sense for me in regards to my brothers and our long-term goals, which was to actually build an empire.
It sounds very, very crazy, but it was something that we really wanted to do. In single-family, it would have just taken so long, so we were like, "Why not just start now?" People always think it's harder to get into commercial, which it is. But if someone our age can get into deals, eventually that just going to roll onto itself and grow. That's how we've been able to do it so far.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah. Obviously, age has not been a hindrance to you guys, given the success or the deals you guys have been able to be a part of over the last year, for sure. I get where you're coming from with scale. I started as a house hacker, I did a bunch of those two, three, and four family deals before scaling up into larger properties myself. And I get where you're coming from with calling yourself an empire builder. It's a very different mindset to be transactional. This is a guttural emotional way to put it, but being transactional is very different from finding something you can stick your flag and claim as your own, take care of, and pass on to your family, whether you call that an empire or not.
Jeffrey Donis: Right, exactly. Yeah. It's just the thing that made the most sense for us. At the end of the day, there are so many other benefits to multifamily versus single-family that we don't have to get into... But we just kept learning about these things through the podcasts and the books that we kept reading. You start going to conferences and you start hanging out with people that are doing that. They come from a single-family background and you start to wonder, why are they transitioning? As you pick up on that information, then it just makes sense to you as well.
Break: [00:15:26] - [00:17:13]
Slocomb Reed: You clearly have an ambition that was going to outpace the growth potential by sticking with single-family homes.
Jeffrey Donis: Definitely.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, thinking about our Best Ever listeners and the Best Ever listeners that I've met in places like the Best Ever Conference and the people who reach out to me... Thinking about your age, and frankly, just giving you credit for the success that you've had thus far, but taking a different perspective - I want to think about the people for whom you are closer in age to their children than them. I know there are people who are listening right now who are thinking, "Oh, snap. I want my kid to be saying the things that Jeffrey is saying right now in a few years. And I want to expose Jeffrey in his mindset to my own kids," who are younger than you, "so that they can see that this is a possibility." What is it that first exposes you to Rich Dad Poor Dad?
Jeffrey Donis: That's a good question, I’m happy you asked. I have a twin brother, as I said, and the first thing that we started doing... I can go into the story about how we found wholesaling, that's how he found the book. But there's YouTube, and that's how we started learning about real estate in general. YouTube is free, so I always push people to...
Slocomb Reed: Let's take a step back... You were looking for something when you went to YouTube to look for it. What is it you were looking for?
Jeffrey Donis: Let me take a step back as well. My brother Kenneth was sitting in his apartment in college and he was watching YouTube videos. One of them was called The Breakfast Club. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of them, but they have a YouTube channel. They brought on a guest who was doing wholesaling. He comes from a low-income background, he's a minority, so that's how my brother was attracted to him, because he looked like us. He comes from a similar background. He was explaining how he was building a multimillion-dollar company in real estate. He was saying, "If you're watching this, if I can do this, you can do this, too." We were, "Okay." My brother was, "Wow, he's kind of speaking to me." So we eventually just looked into what wholesaling was, and started watching YouTube videos. Then podcasts came. And as you listen to these podcasts, people drop a lot of the different books that they're reading. Pretty much every podcast guest says that Rich Dad Poor Dad changed their life. We were like, "We should probably read the book. We should probably look into it." We should probably read it; the purple book is what everyone calls it. So we read it, and at that point, we fell in love with Robert Kiyosaki specifically, and started listening to BiggerPockets podcasts as well, because we were just cranking out podcasts. After that, Cashflow Quadrant came, Think and Grow Rich, and Napoleon Hill books on Outwitting the Devil. Literally, that's how we started, just self-educating ourselves and taking action. That's the biggest thing, education while taking action.
Slocomb Reed: So it started with a level of ambition that you already had, but then scrolling through YouTube... The Breakfast Club was also a movie from the '80s by the way. But I saw it for the first time when I was in Saturday school at my high school.
Jeffrey Donis: I never watched it.
Slocomb Reed: But you were hanging out on the couch, young and ambitious, scrolling YouTube, you hear about wholesaling, and you decide to dig deeper. Honestly, this is one of the things I love about what's available to us nowadays that wasn't available to us even 10 years ago... The ability to just scroll and see those kinds of things on a platform like YouTube. It grew from there, YouTube exposed you to podcasts, and podcasts exposed you to books, "If they can do it, why can't I do it?" You get into single-family flipping, which is a lot simpler, to be fair, than what we and our listeners are doing in commercial real estate. But that makes sense as an excellent springboard. I interrupted you earlier when you were saying what you would recommend that other people who were in your situation do. You were going to say that you send them to YouTube?
Jeffrey Donis: There are obviously books. One of my mentors has told me, "If anyone reaches out to you," because we get a lot of people that reached out through social media, asking for different tips, "ask them what books they've read. If they don't really tell you a list or they haven't started, then tell them what books they should read." In my opinion, it all starts with the mindset and what information you're taking in. That's how we started. So I had to try pushing toward authors, books, podcasts, and YouTube videos. Also, through my content, we try to educate people as well.
Slocomb Reed: Before I got into real estate sales, I had a career that put me in the car driving around town, and then I became a brand-new residential sales agent. I had to drive all over Greater Cincinnati. If I had a client and they wanted to see a house, I had to show it to him. That hunger, as in ambition, but also that hunger as in hunger, like I need to eat, I had both of those.
Jeffrey Donis: That's the best blend.
Slocomb Reed: Right? I was exposed early on to the idea that if I'm in my car, I could be learning from that opportunity to listen. I'm not explaining myself well, but there are people who are saying things like, "I graduated from Rolling University. Whenever my car was rolling, I was in class." I'm a big fan of audiobooks now. I actually still have a list of all of the books, personal growth, self-help, personal finance, business, leadership books... I maintain the list now just so that I have a quick reference guide when somebody asks me for something, or asks me if I've read X or Y. But yeah, absolutely, there's so much free and affordable education available out there.
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah. To be honest, it sounds very cliche, but I don't think there are any excuses, really. If you're born in America - and that's something that when I went to Guatemala we saw... "Okay, I actually have an opportunity that a lot of people really close to me - these are my cousins and my aunts, my uncles - don't have." That's really what lit that fire under us. Because my mom would always tell us where she comes from, but it's very different from her saying it versus us living there for three weeks and experiencing ourselves.
Slocomb Reed: You were just there three weeks. I will say, especially with my experience of Latin America and other more impoverished parts of the world, that the vast majority of Americans lack that exposure to what life looks like for the not fortunate in other places. I spend a lot of time in gratitude for the opportunities available to me. Jeffrey, so far, it sounds like you're young, you're a genius, and everything that you do works amazingly well. Tell us about something that you've struggled with, a challenge that you've had to grow through.
Jeffrey Donis: 100%. Honestly, I'm not a genius. I try my best to surround myself with really good people. I can only accredit it to them and my mentors. In regards to the biggest challenge, I would say it's being patient. I have these ambitious goals and I don't want to rush it. I want to get there, but - in the beginning, they always say, "Real estate is a long-term game", [unintelligible 00:23:41.02] I came into it thinking I was going to break the bank year one. But that's just how it is - it takes time, it takes patience and I think that's how you do it well.
As you said, you touched on being grateful; that's something that has helped me overcome that, and understanding that you don't really want instant gratification. The best things are things that take time, and delayed gratification. That's something that I've really implemented myself, just through my spiritual journey as well. Being able to really just be present, not necessarily trying to rush things.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. What about specific to one of your deals? You can take this to one of the single-family wholesale deals, what's the biggest mistake you've made, and what have you had to learn from it?
Jeffrey Donis: In real estate, I would say there's been a lot... In the beginning, there was once when on one of our wholesale deals, we got it under contract and then I reached out... There was a resident living on the property at the time. We had it under contract and we were about to go and take it over. I'd already negotiated with the seller and everything was good. I reached out to the resident living there before we actually closed on it. He ended up going to the seller and telling him that I was trying to keep them in the property. I'm trying to negotiate with the resident at the time to maybe see if we could just work something out before we even closed on it, which was a mistake. We should probably just wait before we talk to anyone and just close on it. I'd say that's the first thing that comes to mind, it's not necessarily counting your pennies before it's done.
Slocomb Reed: Is it the tenant reaching out to the owner that cost you the deal?
Jeffrey Donis: Yes.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, absolutely. I've made similar mistakes. I've more watched my clients make similar mistakes where they wanted to get really aggressive, especially when you have a value-add business plan and you want to start your renovations ASAP. But sometimes you've got to cross the finish line before you can start the next race.
Jeffrey Donis: 100%. If you don't mind, one of the mistakes that I've made with my investors... Since that's what I do for multifamily, I'll quickly go into that if that's okay... Setting expectations, that's something that I've had to learn how to do. For example, with K1 documents, sometimes it gets delayed. Setting expectations beforehand about what they can expect, that's the biggest thing, and I had to learn it the hard way. I didn't necessarily reach out to them before I should have; I should have told them what to expect. They reached out to me first, which is the lesson, but the wrong thing to happen. You should reach out to them, and explain to them what to expect. I didn't set that properly. That's really one thing that I learned this year.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, I made the same mistake, especially when I was more of a real estate agent and less of an investor. I always shot myself in the foot by telling my clients exactly by when I'd get them the paperwork. Man, more than half of the time I'd miss my own arbitrarily placed too early deadline. "You'll have this from me tonight," and I get to 11:00 P.M. and I am not in a mental state where I should be drafting purchase documents for a client, and I've got to go sleep and wake up early. So totally, setting proper expectations and then communicating with investors, with clients - absolutely critical and easy to slip up there, for sure. I appreciate you sharing that. Jeffrey, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Jeffrey Donis: Yes.
Slocomb Reed: What is the Best Ever book you've recently read?
Jeffrey Donis: Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty.
Slocomb Reed: Tell me about it.
Jeffrey Donis: Jay Shetty is a spiritual mental health, I would say, guru. He's really big on social media, but he has a podcast called On Purpose. That's how I found out about the book. He used to be a monk, and what they would do is he would just live without a phone, he had no mirrors, took a shower, but not that often... He just really went into his lifestyle as a monk and how he's now applying that to his daily life. As I said, I'm very spiritual, so I do meditate, I do yoga, and it's something that has helped me in my business. As I said, I used to rush things, and just being more present has allowed me not only to be more grateful, but I feel like I'm more present when I'm actually doing the most important things. Sometimes I struggle with anxiety and stuff like that, just dealing with investors and different deals going on. All that stuff has helped me.
Slocomb Reed: I struggle with anxiety too, if I'm being honest. Especially, the more plates I'm spinning. What is your Best Ever way to give back?
Jeffrey Donis: Yeah. As I said, the one thing that we're doing right now also is we [unintelligible 00:27:39.18] 10% of anything that we make. Room to Read is the non-profit that I learned about in the book that I mentioned earlier in the podcast, and then we also help our mother. Our goal is to retire her soon as possible.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, what is your Best Ever advice?
Jeffrey Donis: I would say this is the one thing that I can do, is building your network. That's really how we've been able to accelerate our progress in the multifamily space. We surround ourselves with really, really good people, well-experienced people in the multifamily space. We did that by joining different mastermind groups. Hands down, the five people that you surround yourself with are going to affect you in a lot of ways.
Slocomb Reed: Jeffrey, I'm going to pressure you to turn that into advice. You're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and therefore...
Jeffrey Donis: And therefore, you should make it an intention to go to networking events. We go to multiple a year, so you can reach out to me and ask me which is I'm going to. But just get out, there are free ones in your local area. Maybe attend one a month. By doing that, you're going to meet people in this space, that are doing deals or might be able to help you grow your business in some way.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. Jeffrey, where can our Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?
Jeffrey Donis: On any platform, @donisbrothers, and then me personally, @jeffreydonis. Also, we have a podcast, The Real Estate Monopoly, if you're interested.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. Links to those will be in the show notes as well. Jeffrey, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well. If you've gained value from this conversation, --I certainly have-- please subscribe to our show, leave us a five-star review, and share this episode with a friend that you know will gain value from it as well. Thank you and have a Best Ever day.
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