Former wildlife management conservation biologist Mason Moreland grew up thinking he’d be the next Steve Irwin. As soon as he graduated college, however, he caught the real estate bug and started investing in single-family homes with his father and brother. Today, Mason is able to combine both his passions as GP of $15.75M in vineyards held by Texas Vine Country, where he is a managing partner. In this episode, Mason explains the ins and outs of Texas vineyard development, operation, and investment. Highlights include:
Vineyard Valuation
Unlike in California, where vineyard valuation is determined by comps, Texas vineyards are considered agriculture deals, and therefore, commercial real estate deals. Blended appraisals are used for valuation, especially in the vineyard’s first few years.
Cap Rates vs. IRR
Texas vineyards often see cap rates in the 20s because of the cash flow they spin off, Mason says — but he doesn’t think cap rates are a good metric to use. Because it can take several years for a vineyard to begin producing cash flow, he says it’s important to look at an entire 10-year hold period for an accurate return number — he typically sees 16%–17% IRR.
The Plan: Hold, Cash Flow, and Operate
Mason’s team typically underwrites a 10-year hold. Their main exit strategy is to hold, cash flow, and operate. “So the plan is to provide as many exit strategies for ourselves as we can,” he says. This approach also allows them to make themselves an attractive acquisition target. They then like to refinance in year 8 or 9, producing a tax-advantaged capital distribution to their investors and keeping them in the deal.
Risk Factors
Weather is one of the biggest risks when it comes to investing in vineyards, but the High Plains AVA region where Texas Vine Country’s vineyards are located is ideal to withstand any unexpected deep freezes, Mason says. Consistency, rainfall, and water access are additionally very important factors. TVC’s vineyards receive just enough rainfall at about 15-20 inches per year, and they use some additional groundwater irrigation. They also make sure to insure their crop production.
Available Real Estate
In the High Plains AVA region where Mason’s vineyards are located, there are lots of opportunities to develop more vineyards in the area. “For irrigated farmland out here, we have several million acres that [could potentially be used] for a vineyard,” he says. “And we probably only have roughly 4,000 acres of vineyards combined out here, so it’s just a drop in the bucket.”
Mason Moreland | Real Estate Background
- Managing partner at Texas Vine Country (TVC), which raises capital for, develops from the ground up, and operates large mechanized wine-grape vineyards in Texas.
- Portfolio: GP of $15.75M in vineyards held by TVC solely (~350 acres)
- $13.5M of additional syndicated vineyard in development currently
- Based in: Midland, TX
- Say hi to him at:
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TRANSCRIPT
Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I'm Slocomb Reed and I'm here with Mason Moreland. Mason is joining us from Midland, Texas. He's the managing partner at Texas Vine Country, or TVC, which raises capital for, develops, and operates large mechanized wine grape vineyards in Texas. They currently GP almost 16 million in vineyards held by TVC, and have another 13.5 million in vineyards syndicated that are currently in development. Mason, can you start us off a little bit more about your background?
Mason Moreland: Sure. I've got sort of a long, winding road to get where I've been at, like everybody else... But first of, thanks for having me; a pleasure to be on to chat with you. My background is as a biologist, grew up thinking I was going to be [unintelligible 00:04:11] when, long story short, I didn't want to be chasing grant money or be a professor for the rest of my life. So I switched majors, also was Texas Tech alumn like Joe, and switched to what I like to call fondly "applied rednecking." Professional rednecking; it's a wildlife management conservation biology.
I really got into environmental consulting from there. But my story with real estate really started to rise - I graduated from college, started investing in single-family homes, and started investing more importantly, with my brother and my dad. That was really big for me. But fast-forward almost a decade, I've been underwriting every kind of asset you can imagine, every kind of business type, but still really passionate about the land, and kept trying to find ways to, "Okay, how can I live on 15 acres with a vineyard and house-hack, vineyard-hack the house, cashflow the house with the vineyard?" I started underwriting and I was like, "Man, this just doesn't work. It's so expensive. "
That's when I started networking really hard, and started learning about, "Okay, what are people doing to make this economic in California?" They're just operating on a completely different style. They're not doing 15-50 acres, they're doing 500 acres, and they're doing it all with machines, they're doing touch-free vineyards and things like that. None of this hand labor stuff that we do here in Texas most of the time.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. So through that networking, you started discovering opportunities to get into that yourself. When did you GP your first vineyard deal?
Mason Moreland: The first one we did we actually did as a JV. We didn't syndicate the first one. And that was really strategic, because as you probably know, it takes a long time for permanent crops to grow. You don't plant a grapevine, you don't get grapes that year. It's a couple of years down the road so it takes a long time. So we really wanted to do it in real life, show what we're doing, put our own money in land and time on the line, and then bring that to market as an experience before we try to GP something.
So the first one that we've syndicated was this past year, and that's the one that's currently under construction now. The one before that was JV'ed and that was done between my family, our vineyard management partner, and then another farming family out here.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. And how large was that first deal that you JV'ed? You said the people who are having success in this space are doing 500-acre vineyards. How big was your first one?
Mason Moreland: Our first one - I've got land somewhere in the top five vineyards in the state Texas as far as size, it is 350 net acres right now on the vine, so that puts us about second, third, somewhere in there as far as total acres in the state of Texas. California scales a lot different; they've got something like 980,000 acres on the vine, and Texas has 7,000 currently or something like that; six to seven.
Slocomb Reed: Mason, there are a couple of different directions I want to head in with this conversation... The first thing I want to do is I want to make it approachable and more relatable to our Best Ever listeners. It sounds like your deals are development deals. So you're not buying currently operating vineyards, you're buying land, possibly raw land, that has the potential to be developed into a vineyard.
And again, Mason, I like to make assumptions and let you correct me where I'm wrong to keep the conversation flowing... So please disagree with me/correct me whenever you need to. I'm not going to take it personally; that's what our listeners are here for. Let's talk about this by comparison to a typical development opportunity. You said you underwrote a whole bunch of different kinds of deals, so hopefully you have some good underwriting experience to work from here.
It sounds like we can compare these to development deals where someone buys raw land for the sake of putting a commercial real estate asset on it, and executing on a business plan. So let's make a couple of comparisons here... First of all, the 350-acre vineyard you guys have currently - this valuation in our notes of 15 and 3/4 million dollars, is that how much has gone into it? Is that what it's currently worth?
Mason Moreland: No, that's actually part of the beauty of the development play. If you're doing it right, you're putting in X dollars, and you're getting out value because of your time and your expertise and everything and your due diligence on the site selection, of X plus whatever. That's the big benefit of what we do. Because we do all of our contracting in-house, everything like that; all of our labor is all in-house. So where somebody else might get just the trellises for say $2500 an acre now here, we are able to do it for say $1500, so potentially $1000 less an acre or less. Just on the labor side, not to mention materials. The materials, markups... Let me get it directly. But yeah, it's very, very comparable to development.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah. So there's a commonality with other asset classes - make construction more affordable by bringing it in-house. Just under $16 million - is that how much you have in the deal or is that how much it's worth now?
Mason Moreland: How much it's worth now, yeah. What we have in the deals are definitely less than that. As I said, that's the beauty of development, you end up with more than you started with. It is very comparable to a development play where you have the construction in-house.
Slocomb Reed: Mason, how is that valuation determined? What I want to hear you say is it's a factor of a cap rate, because that's what's most relatable, but how does is that the number that was arrived at?
Mason Moreland: Vineyards, especially in Texas, are a little bit different than necessarily vineyards everywhere, just because there's less. So if you're looking in California, you're actually going to find a lot of comps so you can look at it from a comp perspective. In the state of Texas especially, it's agriculture. They're considering this an ag deal, which is essentially a commercial real estate deal.
So what they look at is exactly that - they're looking at what kind of capital this has produced. And vineyards, they spin off a lot of capital. Once they get going, they spin off a lot of cash. They do typically use a blended appraisal, especially in the early years of the vineyard, with both the market rate, why do people want it, and then also what it's going to produce. So if you're looking at appraising a vineyard that's in years zero to three or four before it's in full production, they're going to use some kind of blended appraisal there for the value.
Slocomb Reed: What year is your current vineyard in?
Mason Moreland: All of them, we've got vines of all different ages. So we've got some that's up to seven years old, some that are just going into their third leaf right now, and then we're also planting.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. So a blended crop, a blended cap rate; what's that cap rate going to look like?
Mason Moreland: The cap rate itself - if you look on an entity level, it's a little bit absurd. Which is why it makes for a good target for syndicating. You actually have some meat on the bone in there to spin off to your investors, but it's well north of 10.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Well north of 10, meaning like 10.5 or meaning, like what?
Mason Moreland: You're looking like more in your 20s. Like, it's really good.
Slocomb Reed: A 20 cap?
Mason Moreland: Yeah, they spin off a lot of cash flow. For the actual purchase valuations currently, they're typically being valued at around $30,000 to $45,000 an acre. The typical actual capital input for us is usually around $15,000 to $20,000 an acre. It just depends on steel prices; this year has been ridiculous. We've seen steel literally double, one to 1.5 times.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. You said your cost per acre developed is going to be between 60,000 and 80,000?
Mason Moreland: No, per acre. The actual valuation of them is typically around 30 to 45. Our actual costs or input costs on labor, materials, and everything like that, land is typically more on that like 15 to 20, full-up. So that's to get it from start to finish, essentially; buy the vines, buy all the pieces, get them all the way up to production. We come in there with built-in equity of that spread already. Typically, I don't actually like to look at the vineyards with cap rates. I don't think it's as good of a metric to look at them with.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Let me give you my assumption and you correct me where I'm wrong. The standard point of comparison for this show for non-apartments syndications is apartment syndication. Because that's what the majority of syndicated commercial real estate deals are, apartments syndications, and that's what the majority of our Best Ever listeners are involved in. So what I'm hearing is you raise capital, you buy, you build.
There is a waiting period of three years minimum before you're in a position to produce cash flow, because it's three years minimum before you have the grapes that you need to make the wine. But when you get into those years, four, five, six, seven, the cash flow that you're producing is absolutely tremendous; so it's a waiting game for your investors, but when they get to the later years... You don't like cap rate, but you said 20 cap. Obviously--
Mason Moreland: I may be like misplacing numbers here. I guess the best way to look at it, to get apples to apples, and this is usually the best way that I can explain it, is - you're looking at different hold periods, obviously; so it's more like you'd be looking at a 10-year timeframe for getting a good number of averaging it out, because our year-to-year, annualized cash on cash return looks silly; it's like 20% or 30% plus. Usually, it's in the high 20's.
So if you go to somebody and say, "Hey, I can offer you 30% cash-on-cash return," that's not accurate. That's just a flat-out lie, because it only comes in years five and beyond. So you really have to blend that across those years where you're not doing anything. So that's where IRR comes in, and I think IRR is probably the better term to look at it. In an IRR, we're looking at 16%, 17% IRRs. It's very competitive on that front.
Slocomb Reed: That's underwriting to a 10-year hold?
Mason Moreland: Correct, yeah. We aim ourselves to be very attractive for acquisition. We act like the big California buyers would as far as our operations and design. But our main exit strategy is to hold and cashflow and re-develop, so we actually have hold-backs built into all those different years to retain capital for re-developing the vineyard again once it gets aged out.
Slocomb Reed: So you're underwriting to a 10-year hold. Is the plan to sell after 10 years?
Mason Moreland: Definitely not. The plan is to provide as many exit strategies for ourselves as we can. Our focus is definitely hold and cashflow and operate. But by doing that, we can also make ourselves an attractive acquisition target, by modeling our operations and the actual design of our vineyards, like the really large players on the west coast. The wine Gallo Group, Diageo, all those folks that are operating these -- the stuff you see on every store shelf.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Absolutely. I was just thinking, if it takes three to five years to get running, why would you sell after 10? But you would only sell after 10 if you had modeled your business to imitate what the major players in the space, the "institutional vineyards" are doing to make yourself look like a juicy acquisition. If you receive an offer you can't refuse, you don't refuse it. But man, I'm a buy-and-hold investor, and when you talk about those cash flow investors, man, I'm the guy who doesn't mind waiting a few years if the cash flow is going to be absurd from then on forever.
So thinking about raising capital for these deals, are they structured such that you have the potential for a cash-out refinance in those later years? And for our listeners who are only listening, Mason is already nodding. So I'll go ahead with my follow-up question. When you refinance, are you refinancing your LPs out of the deal, or are you keeping them with you in continued ownership of the asset?
Mason Moreland: Yeah. I could see the wheels turning in your head; that’s exactly what we plan. Just like I said earlier, they treat these more like commercial assets once they're up and producing, because it's just a commercial agricultural asset. Typically, what we model is a refi in like year eight or nine, once you've got a good track record built up of "Here's the production, here's the cash flow numbers", then you go out and get a new loan based on that valuation. I get a nice tax-advantaged capital distribution to your investors, and you keep them in the deal.
So your cash flow levels on a year-to-year basis go down, because you've increased the debt... But in general, boosting returns provides some additional capital to save for re-development in the future. What we do, we focus really heavily on producing the highest yield, at the highest quality we can. In doing that, the vines can only do that for a certain number of years, so we have to plan for years 20-30, in that range, we have to start replanting vines and freshening things back up again.
Slocomb Reed: As a buy and hold investor, I get excited whenever anyone mentions that they're planning for years 20 through 30.
Mason Moreland: [unintelligible 00:17:13.24] a lot of people scale. I'm sitting here figuring out, "Okay, how do I get this set up to have either my kids or whoever the next manager is to have a really great asset to keep bringing for our investor's kid’s kids.
Break: [00:17:31] - [00:19:18]
Slocomb Reed: Point of comparison, Mason, for my buy and hold BRRRR-style investing... One of the struggles I have personally with underwriting to the five-year hold is that years one and two for me are a grind, and I don't make any money. But after that, I've got a high-quality set-it-and-forget-it cash-flowing asset that I don't want to give up, especially if I can cash out all of my initial capital and possibly more. It sounds like what you have here with this vineyard, with these vineyards in Texas, is a more prolonged higher cashflow version of that, where you got to get to year four or five before you're seeing cashflow, but man, the returns after that are phenomenal. So let's talk about potential downsides.
Mason Moreland: Yeah, absolutely.
Slocomb Reed: There are two major things that come to mind here. Let me start by saying when it comes to downsides, the first question I have, the place my mind immediately goes is risk. Whenever there's typically higher cash flow or really high returns, there's some sort of risk associated with that. The first thing that comes to mind is the economic factors that impact vineyards. You may disagree, Mason, but wine is not a basic human need...
Mason Moreland: No.
Slocomb Reed: ...the way that apartments are. So there is the possibility of heavy fluctuations in the demand for wine. Of course, it's April 2022, we're coming on two years of COVID, and there's been plenty of wine consumption. In the last couple of years, demand has skyrocketed. But when you're creating this business plan, how do you factor for the potential volatility and the demand for the product that you're producing?
Mason Moreland: I guess on the front end on risk, the way I look at risk, you've got a couple of different factors. You've got the likelihood of the risk occurring, and then you've got to multiply that by the time, because there's a time function there. So if you're holding an apartment building for three years and it's in a flood zone, you're going to factor that in differently if you're planning to hold an apartment for 80 years in a flood zone. More likely, if you're in a 100-year flood zone and you're holding it for 80 years, the chances that you're going to get flooded are a little bit higher on that than a five-year hold. That's one of the factors that's big with the vineyards. As you said, it's a long hold period so you have to factor in that a lot of those risks will happen at some point, or may happen at some point. For us, the biggest risks are definitely weather by far, far and away.
On the demand side, in Texas right now, we only produce about half of the fruit that we actually consume in Texas winemaking. The other half, they actually have to truck in so they have to get made in a bulk wine that's stabilized and truck it all in from California and then finish it here. There's a big push legally in the state of Texas to completely remove the ability to have any non-Texas wine and Texas-marked bottles. That's actually a big tailwind for us right now on the market demand side.
But what we've seen trending is that in Texas we can't get enough fruit; we're at about 50% of what we need. Prices are two to four times more than they are in California per ton right now, for the same quality, to show you where we're at in the market demand side of things. We've got a lot of room to make that up.
But on the weather side, this is actually one thing I think is really cool about agriculture... Not just grapes, but any sort of agricultural investment. On any of your multifamily deals or single-family deals, have you ever shopped for vacancy insurance?
Slocomb Reed: Vacancy insurance. No, I haven't.
Mason Moreland: Exactly. For crops, we can ensure the production of that. So we can actually hedge our bets. Particularly for weather risks; you've got things like early and late freezes, hail, wind storms, tornado, all those kinds of things that can knock yield off for a year. What we can do is we can go and pay a premium to actually ensure up to 75% of that production. So we kind of lock in how much we're going to get in revenue. Yeah, it's an enormous cost, it's I want to say like $500,000 or $600,000 a year for some of these blocks that we do. It's pretty big cost, but it's definitely well worth it to cover that risk.
Slocomb Reed: You've already transitioned to my next question when it comes to risk... I will say you spent some time talking about the weather without using the words climate change. A lot of investors, especially Best Ever listeners, are familiar with the changing landscape of insurance due to climate change. I don't think any American adult has made it through the last two years without hearing a story about a snowstorm or an ice storm in Texas that Texas was not ready for.
Mason Moreland: February was fun. It's interesting. A fun Saint Valentine's Day that day.
Slocomb Reed: So ease my concerns here, Mason... If I were a limited partner in a vineyard syndication in Texas, I don't want to hear my operator say "February was really fun. Valentine's Day was tough because of the weather." You said this is something that you can insure against - that definitely helps, for sure. Do you have any data on how climate change specific to Texas has impacted the potential for growing grapes?
Mason Moreland: Yeah, and I can speak to February 14 too, a little bit more on that deep freeze we had. We got down to about negative five, and I can count the number of vines that have suspected freeze damage on one hand out of about a quarter-million that we have out there on that site. They're very hardy. For our location, it stays so cool for so long during the winter; they stay dormant. While they're dormant, they're very resilient. The rest of the state, like around Dallas, that area north of Dallas is actually a decent size grape-growing region. They experienced widespread death'; over 90% in some vineyard’s cases. That was because they get warmer so much earlier there that the vines actually come out of dormancy earlier. So they were already starting to come out of dormancy and had sap flowing through them, so that sap froze and it destroyed the tissue. Out here we were just, "I hope it doesn't go another 10 degrees lower. That would be uncomfortable." We would probably have some vines getting some serious damage. But I think we only had 10, 5 vines that showed possible freeze damage. We haven't confirmed it yet, because you have to cut the vine off and slice the vine in half. So we're not super keen on just cutting vines down willy-nilly.
Slocomb Reed: Of course.
Mason Moreland: On the climate change side - I can speak to that, too. One of the things you can look at is the consistency of rainfall and water access. One of the things that you always hear when you're looking at farmland deals out in California and the West Coast is the water supply. They're having some real issues, because it's almost all dependent on the Colorado River in a lot of places. It's drying up; a lot of their water table are used up. Out here we get almost exactly the amount of rain we need for the grapes every year. So we average between 15 and 20 inches of rain, depending on the location we're at. I
t comes at the right time, it comes during the summer as well. Usually, we'll have to take a little hit of groundwater irrigation like in the fall, just to get them prepped for going to bed, so to speak. But yeah, we have real comfortable water; doing okay out here. So for the foreseeable future, it looks nice.
Slocomb Reed: Extrapolating from what you're saying, Mason, you can't just put a vineyard anywhere in Texas. You need some particular geographic factors in your favor, and it sounds like you have those in that your vineyard, because of its location, survived the deep freeze better than vineyards in other parts of Texas. Let me ask - I know you're based in Midland, Texas; is that where the vineyard is?
Mason Moreland: I'm just outside of the Southern reach of our region. So I actually live just about an hour south of our main base of operations. The primary area where we operate is called the High Plains, an American Viticultural Area. The High Plains AVA ranges from just north of Lubbock, Texas, down almost to Midland. We operate primarily out of La Mesa. The new base we're building right now is in Seagraves, a teeny tiny town. But also, out here on the High Plains. Comparing our climate to Houston is like looking at Atlanta, Georgia versus Phoenix. It's way different. If you've never been to Texas and haven't been in those two different climates, it's a world apart, even though they're only eight or nine hours away. I say only... That's probably a Texas thing.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, that is, in the Dakotas... Last question on this subject before I transition and then head into the end of the interview. Specific to that region, you call it the High Plains AVA; how much of it is already vineyard, and how much of it is still available to be developed into vineyards? The highest quality geographic areas for the type of development that you all do - how much opportunity is left, Mason?
Mason Moreland: A lot. A whole lot. That's primarily because out here, cotton is king. We primarily produce out here cotton, peanuts, wheat, and sorghum. Those are all annual row crops people plant in spring or fall, harvest, and then do it all over again every single year. Typical land prices for that is $2500 to $3500 an acre for irrigated farmland. For irrigated farmland out here we have several, several, several million acres that has potential for vineyard, and we probably only have roughly 4,000 acres of vineyards combined out here. It's a drop in the bucket.
Slocomb Reed: Those several million acres are already developed as cotton and peanut and other crops, so you're talking about having to acquire already active farmland...
Mason Moreland: That's exactly what we do.
Slocomb Reed: It's a reposition play.
Mason Moreland: Yup, that's exactly what we do. We go in there, and especially we like to do farmland that's already irrigated, because it has the infrastructure and it's already clear. You can just go in and seed it with whatever you want, put your vines in, and you're off to the races. So that's really our ideal target.
Slocomb Reed: When did you acquire the land that you have now?
Mason Moreland: Which one? The first one or the newest one?
Slocomb Reed: The first.
Mason Moreland: The first one - that was with our JV, so we came together with a cash partner. We were a land partner...
Slocomb Reed: When was it?
Mason Moreland: That was 2017, 2018?
Slocomb Reed: 2017-2018. What return were you projecting for your LPs?
Mason Moreland: Well, we didn't have LPs on that. We had a straight partnership for that one. So that was about a 30% or 40% yearly cash on cash. Once you take that across there, you're still looking at about a 15 to 20 IRR.
Slocomb Reed: 15% to 20% IRR effectively for yourselves?
Mason Moreland: Correct.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. That's over a 10-year period?
Mason Moreland: Yeah. And that was also a little bit different too, because they had a little bit of an existing vineyard, some different assets that were coming along with that. It values out a little bit differently.
Slocomb Reed: Did you have LPs on your more recent acquisitions?
Mason Moreland: Yeah, we have LPs.
Slocomb Reed: Speaking specifically to deals you've already taken down, what were you projecting for LPs on those deals?
Mason Moreland: Which metrics? Cash on cash, or IRR?
Slocomb Reed: You pick whichever metric you think is most important.
Mason Moreland: IRR is probably most important over a 10-year hold; about 15% o 16%. We're looking at different ways to actually blend that a little bit with some additional ag-asset acquisitions as well. We'll be looking for that in the future.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Given the way that you've presented the numbers this far, could the IRR increase if your hold period were longer than 10 years?
Mason Moreland: Yeah, for sure. It definitely increases over that time. I think the stabilized annual cash on cash, depending on if you refi or not. It's either about 19% to 20% if you refi after you get all that cashback out, or about 25% to 30% annual cash on cash if you don't refi.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Mason, are you ready for our Best Ever lightning round?
Mason Moreland: Let's do it.
Slocomb Reed: What is the Best Ever book you've recently read?
Mason Moreland: I keep going back to it over and over... How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Slocomb Reed: Dale Carnegie.
Mason Moreland: Oh, yeah. A horrible title, a great book.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, the title has nothing to do with the actual content, at least the way that we think of it today. What is your Best Ever way to give back?
Mason Moreland: Through the church, absolutely. Knights of Columbus, Moms Club here at church; awesome organizations.
Slocomb Reed: What is your Best Ever advice?
Mason Moreland: Definitely subscribe to the "You are the average of the five people you hang out with." If I had known that 20 years ago, I would have made a lot of different choices and hung out with a lot of different people, and tried to be the number five on that list, so I always had people better than me that I'm aspiring to be like.
Slocomb Reed: I totally get that. Last question, Mason, where can our Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?
Mason Moreland: LinkedIn for sure. Definitely the best one. I'm on LinkedIn all the time, pretty much. Or at our website, texasvinecountry.com.
Slocomb Reed: Great. Links to your LinkedIn and your website will be in the show notes. Mason, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well. If you've gained value from this conversation with Mason, please subscribe to our show, leave us a five-star review and share this with a friend who you think may be interested in vineyard investing. Thank you and have a Best Ever day.
Mason Moreland: Thanks, Slocomb.
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