Would you like to be booked on someone else’s podcast? Simple, becoming authority and an icon of your niche…you will surely be invited. How do you do that? There are some tricks of the trade, but in this episode you were here a lot about online presence and giving amazing content. But remember there is a lot more to this, tune in and find out!
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Jessica Rhodes Real Estate Background:
– Founder and CEO of InterviewConnections.com, premier Guest Booking agency for podcasters/guest experts
– Author of Interview Connections: How to #RockThePodcast From Both Sides of the Mic!
– Speaker at Podcast Movement, Podfest.us and Dream Business Academy
– Based in Warwick, Rhode Island
– Say hi to her at Interview Connections
Click here for a summary of Jessica’s Best Ever advice: bit.ly/2rTT5h0
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any fluff.
With us today, someone who is going to help us get booked on other people’s podcasts – and I can tell you a business reason why, here in a little bit – as well as how to leverage those interviews once you’re interviewed on someone else’s podcast.
Jessica Rhodes, how are you doing?
Jessica Rhodes: Joe, hey! I’m doing really well, thanks for having me on.
Joe Fairless: Well, I’m very pleased to have you on, because this is a topic that I’ve seen business results for myself personally and my business, when I’m on other people’s podcasts, and I’m looking forward to you sharing with the Best Ever listeners the benefits. So a little bit about Jessica before we dive in. She is the founder and CEO of InterviewConnections.com, which is a guest-booking agency for podcasters and for guest experts to get people on podcasts. She is the author of Interview Connections: How To Rock The Podcast From Both Sides Of The Mic. She’s based in Warwick, Rhode Island, and you can say hi to her at her website, InterviewConnections.com.
With that being said, Jessica, before we dive into the topic at hand, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more background about what you’re focused on?
Jessica Rhodes: Absolutely. I am totally focused on podcast interviews, being a guest on podcasts and hosting your own podcast. The reason I really focus on this and why I’m so excited to talk about it, to all the real estate investors listening, is because business (especially real estate investing, when you wanna get investors, when you wanna get deals) is all about not only who you know, but who knows you, and about the relationships and the connections that you’re making with people in your industry. And when you are a guest on podcasts, when you host a podcast and you’re interviewing people, those conversations lead to great business: they lead to new deals, they lead to more people following you and eventually doing business with you.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, it does. I can tell you first had that obviously I’m all in on the podcast scene as a host, but then on the flipside, with me being on other people’s podcasts – I have a specific example. About a year-and-a-half, two years ago I was on Marco Santarelli’s podcast. Best Ever listeners, you might recognize his name – he’s been on this show a couple times, or you might have heard his podcast before… But after I was on his podcast, I got a message through my Contact Us page, and it was from an investor who heard me on his podcast.
Well, fast-forward two years from then, which is today, I have actually worked with this one investor and he’s invested almost 18 million dollars in my deals, and I originally got in touch with him because I was interviewed on someone else’s podcast. So I’m here to tell you, Best Ever listeners, this will impact your business in a great way if you focus on this; that’s why it’s so important to have this conversation with Jessica.
The importance of how to get booked on other people’s podcast – clearly we got that box checked. How do we go about that?
Jessica Rhodes: Number one, you have to position yourself as an expert in your industry. If you’re a real estate investor and you wanna be going on real estate podcasts to talk about your expertise and eventually attract investors and deals, you’ve gotta position yourselves as somebody who is successful and has a track record of success and is experienced. Looking at your basic online presence is really important.
I will say there’s a caveat here – there are a number of real estate podcasts that don’t necessarily wanna interview people who have fancy websites and courses and big gurus of real estate; they really like interviewing just real investors and people with experience. That being said, you should definitely have a decent website and an online presence that shows that you are somebody that’s actually in business. Nowadays if you don’t have a website, it’s like “What are you, dead?” Everyone has a website if they’re in business. So looking at your online presence, looking at your social media presence so people can actually connect with you.
Podcasters want to interview people – they wanna interview people with a story, not only with a business and expertise.
The other thing that we work with our clients on is having a one-sheet. A one-sheet is a branded PDF document that has your name and has your bio, and which is something short that a host could read at the beginning of a show to introduce you. Your bio might have something like how much money you’ve invested in real estate, what kind of rental real estate income you have every year. For a lot of successful investors that’s a real impressive amount, so that shows listeners right off the bat that you know what you’re doing and that you have experience… Maybe how many properties or how many states you invest in – have some of those facts right in your intro and right in your bio on your one-sheet, so it captures the host’s attention.
Then also on your one-sheet having some interview topics, as well as some suggested interview questions, because when you’re pitching yourself or you have an agent that’s pitching you to hosts, you don’t wanna make them do all the work; you wanna say “Hey, here’s what we’re gonna talk about.” Before this podcast started recording, Joe said “What are we gonna talk about?” and I gave him right away, “We’re gonna talk about this, this and this, and this is why.” I wanna be on this podcast, so I’m making it as easy as I can to the host and showing him how this topic is valuable. You wanna do that for hosts – you wanna show why your topic of expertise, why your experience is gonna be valuable to the audience of the show that you wanna be on.
Joe Fairless: It makes sense. So we position ourselves as an expert, we have an online presence; we also have a one-sheet with the bio, our name, potential topics of interest or relevance, as well as potential questions. So now we’ve got the preparation done… Now what do we do?
Jessica Rhodes: Now you have to find podcasts that are a good fit for you. The question that you have to answer is “Who is your target audience?” What kinds of people are gonna be the most valuable listeners for your business? What is your biggest pain point?
Maybe you’re a real estate investor and you’ve had a lot of success and now you wanna start teaching other people how, so you wanna find people that are just getting started in real estate investing… So finding those podcasts for beginners, for people that are experienced and are just getting started. Or maybe you don’t wanna teach people, you don’t have a course; you just wanna get more investors or you wanna get more deals, so looking at the shows that are more established, that are talking to people who have a lot of experience, maybe talking about some higher-level topics in real estate.
So figure out what your goal is with the podcast interviews, what you wanna get out of them, and then find the shows that are a good fit. Now, podcasting is definitely great for real estate because there are so many real estate podcasts. There’s a lot of people getting interviewed about real estate investing, so if you just go to iTunes and search “real estate” — in fact, you can actually go to iTunes and go through the different categories of podcasts. There’s business, then there’s investing, and there are subcategories, and I believe real estate investing or real estate is one of those subcategories.
If you do that on iTunes, you’ll see a whole list of shows that are in real estate. When you’re searching through those shows, you wanna find the podcasts that 1) are currently publishing; there are a lot of podcasts on iTunes that are not currently publishing episodes, so you wanna find the ones that are currently publishing. Then most importantly, the ones that have guests on the show. So not just the ones with a solo host; you wanna find the podcasts that actually interview people on each episode, because your chances are gonna be higher with the shows that actually take guests.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, that makes sense. As far as currently publishing, do you just common sense to look at “Okay, they’ve published X amount of this period of time and I think they’re gonna be publishing another?”
Jessica Rhodes: Exactly. I kind of look at “When was the last episode?” If the last episode was a month ago, I’ll see what the last episode was before that, because maybe it’s a monthly podcast. But if the last episode was a month ago and the ones before that were every week, then if they haven’t published in a month, they’re probably not coming back. So you kind of use some common sense…
Sometimes what we’ve done is if it doesn’t seem to be publishing that regularly, we’ll just say “Hey, it looks like you have a great show. Are you still podcasting? Are you still publishing episodes?” because some people just don’t release on a regular basis.
The other thing I see is maybe they don’t publish regularly, they haven’t published recently, but they take guests… Maybe they’re not publishing because they don’t have guests, so if you pitch and say “Hey, I’m a great guest”, they’re like, “Perfect! Now I have content for an episode.”
Joe Fairless: I didn’t think of it that way. Maybe they’re not resourceful enough to get their own guests… So if they need some help – which you probably shouldn’t be listening to them in the first place, if they’re not resourceful enough to find someone to interview… But that’s another story. Alright, so you find podcasts that are a good fit, you reach out to them… What do you say when you’re reaching out to them?
Jessica Rhodes: Yeah, I was just gonna say “Let’s not [unintelligible [00:11:17].00] pitch there…” [laughs] Number one, actually on iTunes when you find a show, they’re currently publishing, they take guests, click to their website – there’s a little link to go to their website. Unless someone’s a podcaster and real savvy marketer, they might not have this set up; I clicked on “Website” and it goes to like a dead website, so sometimes you have to actually google their name or google the podcast and actually find the website. Find their contact information, the Contact page on their website… Some podcasts will actually say “Hey, wanna be a guest? Click here, fill out this form.” Other shows, they’re not even gonna have their e-mail address on their website. There’s a lot of websites that don’t have contact information, funny enough.
So you could try to go to Twitter or social media and just find out from them directly what’s their best e-mail to reach out, “How can I contact you about this?” I’ve found a lot of success in doing that because they’ll say, “Oh yeah, e-mail my assistant”, and maybe you wouldn’t find their assistant’s e-mail on the website.
Once you get the Contact info, once you get the e-mail, you’re gonna write the pitch. Now, the pitch has gotta be personalized, and it has to clearly communicate to them how your topic, how your content, your story is going to bring value to their listeners; you have to paint that picture for them, because that is a podcaster’s number one goal. They only want to bring guests on their show if they believe that that content si going to be valuable to their listeners. Because if it’s not, listeners are not gonna come back for the next episode. So that’s the one question you have to answer. Don’t worry in your pitch listing out all of your accomplishments and how great you are; tell them how you find their show, why you wanna be a guest, why your content would be valuable, and then attach that one-sheet to your e-mail and hyperlink your name or your business name to your website, so that’s way it’s really easy…
I’ve been pitched before, and the person didn’t give me a one-sheet, they didn’t give me a website, so then I’d be like googling for them and getting to different websites, I don’t know how to find them… The first thing a podcaster is gonna do if they’re interested in what you have to say in your pitch – they’re gonna go to your website. So you just hyperlink it and it gets super easy for them.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Jessica Rhodes: And then follow up. That’s key. Most people are not gonna answer you the first time. Most podcasts, especially real estate podcasts — every real estate podcast is most likely hosted by somebody who has a real estate investing business; this is not their number one priority, they have other stuff that they’re doing, other high revenue-generating activities… So if you pitch a podcaster and they don’t reply to you within a day, don’t give up. A non-response is not a no, it just means they’re busy. Maybe they saw it, market it as “Unread”, never got back to it. We follow up every two business days, and the it’s good to make the follow-up personal and maybe include some additional different information, follow up via social media because maybe they just weren’t getting your e-mail… So be really persistent, but polite in your follow-up.
I’ve literally had people that e-mail me back a year after I pitch them. Those are always fun. But it just shows you you can never ever give up. You have to be persistent and follow up. I’ve had more people thank me for following up than people getting annoyed; more people thank. So definitely follow up, and be really confident, too. Google what confident language is and use confident language. A lot of people say, “I’m just reaching out…” Be confident. You can’t expect that podcast host to tell you why you’re so great, you have to be the person to say “Hey, this is why I’m a great guest for your show.”
Joe Fairless: On the confident language thing – what’s either a line or a word or a phrase that you like to use that illustrates that point?
Jessica Rhodes: [unintelligible [00:14:42].21] Let me give you some examples there and hopefully some confident language will come to mind. A lot of people will put in their pitches like “I believe I’m a great guest”, and that is unconfident. Just say it, “I am a great guest.” Just say it assertively and confidently. The word “just”, like “I’m JUST reaching out today” – again, that is unconfident. “I’m e-mailing you today.” So just make it more direct.
There’s a great plugin called Boomerang, and this tool is really great because it reminds you to follow up. When I send a pitch, I click “Boomerang this e-mail in two days if no reply”, and it automatically goes back to the top of my inbox if I don’t get a reply.
The other cool thing that Boomerang has is a respondability thing where it’s this green scale… As you’re taking the e-mail, the green scale goes up and down, depending on how likely someone is to respond. The way you’re writing — I don’t know what it’s reading, but that’s really interesting, to see how you’re phrasing certain things… If you say “I hope you’re doing well today” versus “How are you today?” – the “How are you today?” is most likely to get a response, because it’s asking a question, rather than just saying a statement.
Joe Fairless: I use Boomerang just for one feature, and that is when I get an e-mail and I wanna reply to get it out of the inbox, but I don’t wanna do an immediate reply; I use it to delay the reply. I haven’t used it for the reminder if I don’t get a reply to follow up. That’s interesting.
So that was the first half of our conversation. Before we move on, from how to get booked on someone else’s podcast, and before we move on to “How to leverage the interview once you’re interviewed”, is there anything else you wanna mention as it relates to how to get booked on someone else’s podcast?
Jessica Rhodes: I think I’ve covered a lot; I just think the biggest thing is being persistent and not giving up, and knowing that it’s a long-term strategy. So don’t just send a couple pitches to a couple shows and think “Okay, let’s just see what happens.” If you wanna get on four shows a month, you should probably be pitching 8-10 shows to actually make that goal of four shows a month happen.
So really make it a part of your schedule and reach out to as many shows as possible, and be consistent in your follow-up.
Joe Fairless: Alright, now let’s talk about… Congratulations! Your successful tips, Jessica, have landed us an interview on a podcast.
Jessica Rhodes: Yay!
Joe Fairless: Yaay! [laughter] And now we need to leverage the interview to the fullest extent. How do we do that?
Jessica Rhodes: Number one, take some time to listen to the podcast that you’re gonna be on. Now, if you’ve been on dozens of shows, I’m gonna be honest with you, you might not have to do this, because the more experienced you are with podcast interviews, the less you have to do a ton of prep work before each show… But it’s always good to go back to the basics. But if you’re just getting started with being a guest on a podcast, take some time before the interview, listen to their show, get to know their style. Some of them have rapid fire rounds, so you don’t wanna be caught at the end going “Oh my god, I didn’t know they’ll want to know what my favorite book is”, since they ask every guest that.
So prepare for the interview, listen to the show and know who their target audience is. I went into this knowing this is a show about real estate, so I’m gonna make sure that I tailor my answers to real estate. Do that. Know who the target audience is, and be prepared. When you get on the show, make sure you express your gratitude. I know this is really simple, guys, and I don’t wanna insult your intelligence, but say thank you. [laughs]
Say thank you, express your gratitude, and know that you are a guest in that podcaster’s house, so you should act like a guest. Be really great, make it the best show for them as possible; don’t think about “How am I gonna get investors out of this? How am I gonna get deals?” Focus on bringing value to that show and it will come back to you. Be a giver. Provide really great answers, don’t hold back.
If you are thinking, “Well, I don’t wanna give too much information because then they won’t wanna come find my website or they won’t wanna set up a call…” Don’t think like that. The more information, the more value you give, the more likely people are gonna wanna contact you and work with you. So give a ton of value, give a lot of great information, and then at the end of your interview you’ll most likely have the opportunity to at least give your website or a way for people to contact you.
The key here is to give a free offer – some type of call to action that motivates people to come find your website. Now, I wanna keep this evergreen, because people are gonna listen to this different times – sometimes video series work really well, sometimes it’s webinars, sometimes it’s a free PDF with like a 10-point checklist. Whatever is making sense in the marketing world of the time you’re doing the interview, give a free offer that gets people to go to your website. What I have seen work really well for real estate investors is to have a landing page that’s specific to the podcast that you’re on, so you can actually give your website, like “Go to my website, www.whatever.com/BestEverRealEstateAdvice”. You get my point. Have them go to a landing page that’s specific to that show so that they feel special, so they feel like “Wow, this is just for me.” Then they download the offer, they have an opportunity to join your e-mail list, and then from there you wanna nurture that relationship.
Joe Fairless: A landing page that’s specific to your show – what software platform should we use for that?
Jessica Rhodes: Honestly, any software platform that you prefer.
Joe Fairless: Which one do you use?
Jessica Rhodes: I have a WordPress site, and when I want a landing page, I’ll just have my web designer design it. Lead pages works great…
I’ve interviewed one of my clients, and he uses SquareSpace for his website; that works really well. It’s really easy to just duplicate a landing page. Then he uses Zoho CRM. What that CRM allows him to do is to capture the e-mails and it goes directly into your CRM into an e-mail autoresponder sequence.
That’s really key, because when people opt into your e-mail list, you have to have an e-mail sequence so you can keep in touch with them over time.
Joe Fairless: Okay. My website’s also in WordPress… I know you’re not a web designer, but I know you also know the timing and costs relative to other things that the web designer charges for… So how much time does it take and how expensive is it relative to other things for the WordPress?
Jessica Rhodes: I think once you get a landing page designed once, it’s pretty simple to duplicate it. But yeah, you’re right, I’m totally not a web designer, but I think even I could figure it out, so I know that you could. Once a page is designed, I’m pretty sure there’s a way for you to just duplicate it, adjust the URL, and then swap out whatever that podcast artwork is and just update the URL.
I think it’s pretty simple, but the other option that you could do is just have a landing page for podcasts. Have it be yourwebsite.com/podcast, and then say “Hey, you’re here because you’ve heard me on a podcast. Awesome! Which podcast did you hear me on?” and then you could just list out all the shows. So that’s a way that you don’t have to duplicate the whole page, you could just keep adding to it, and then people can scroll through and see which show they heard you on.
Joe Fairless: Okay, like a drop-down menu, or something.
Jessica Rhodes: Yeah.
Joe Fairless: Very cool. Well, this is valuable stuff. Anything else you wanna mention as it relates to how to leverage the interview once we get the interview?
Jessica Rhodes: Yeah, I would focus on the relationship with the host. Learn about them. A lot of people go into podcast interviews thinking about who the audience is and how many people are listening… Don’t look beyond who the person is that’s actually conducting the interview. You’re more likely to get business and have a profitable relationship with that person than with somebody in the listening audience that you’re not able to talk back and forth with.
So learn about who the host is, ask them “Hey, so what do you do? How long have you been investing?” Just make a connection with them, build a relationship with them… Connect on social media; maybe if you have a book or something, send them something and then they’ll figure out if you guys are going to the same conferences, when you can meet up… Really focus on building relationships with each person that interviews you, and that’s where a lot of referrals will come from.
Joe Fairless: Yeah… And I will say one thing not to do, in the vein of focusing on the host, is to continually mention the host’s name throughout the interview. I find that so annoying, and it’s such an old-school stupid tactic, where an interview guest will come on and every question I’ll ask, they’ll say “Well, Joe, that’s an interesting question.” I see right through what they’re doing – they’re trying to build rapport with me, but it’s the exact opposite, because it’s fake, and it’s just too intentional. So just be genuine with how you focus on the host, and just let it float naturally.
I love building a relationship with them over time, sending them something in the mail afterwards… That’s cool stuff.
Jessica Rhodes: In the same vein, a lot of people teach that when you’re pitching yourself to a podcaster, say “I love your show, it’s so great!” Unless you have genuinely been listening to that podcast for quite some time and you really love it, and you’re like “Man, I’ve been listening for six months and I wanna be on it”, don’t say you love the show. We all know we just want exposure, and we can like it and respect it, but don’t be a brown-noser. [laughs]
Joe Fairless: Yeah, exactly. Just be real. When all else fails, just be yourself and be real, and that will be your best approach in life.
Alright, Jessica. This has been incredibly informative. I’m very grateful that you were on the show and that you shared with us how to get booked on other people’s podcast, and then how to leverage the interviews. Where can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?
Jessica Rhodes: Head on over to InterviewConnectionsBook.com. I just released my book. I’m selling it for free, just a small shipping and handling charge; it’s a paperback book called Interview Connections: How To Rock The Podcast From Both Sides Of The Mic. Honestly, it has everything we talked about in today’s interview and so much more… So if this was interesting to you and you’re intrigued by being on a podcast, grab a copy of my book; you will not regret it. That’s InterviewConnectionsBook.com
Joe Fairless: I will be doing that right after we get done talking; I will get the book shipped out to my home. Well, Jessica, thank you for being on the show, again. Some takeaways I got – I love how you went through a linear process for getting booked, and that is first you position yourself as an expert; second, you have a one-sheet with topics of interest, your name, your bio, potential questions. Third, you identify the podcasts that fit and that are currently publishing. Fourth, you get their e-mail and write the pitch. Five, in the pitch you make sure that you bring value to their listeners. That’s their whole focus. As long as your story will bring value to the listeners, then everything else will fall in place, but focus on them. And then the underlying theme of the five-step process is to be persistent and don’t give up. You said 8-10 shows will be pitched if you wanna get on four shows a month, but you’re an expert in this, perhaps you’re getting a higher degree of success, whereas people who are starting out might be a little bit higher on the number of shows they reach out to.
As far as how to leverage the interviews, take time to listen to the podcast first. I personally don’t do that unless it’s a really large podcast, because I get interviewed often, but I do know going into it the target audience and how I can add value, but then I always ask the host “Why do people listen to your podcast?” And I phrase it in perhaps a not as direct way, but that’s basically the question I ask before we get started. They’ll tell me “Oh, they listen to learn X, Y, Z.” Boom, I know how to focus my conversation with them at the time, and I mention that multiple times throughout the conversation while I’m being interviewed.
So how to leverage – you take the time to listen and prepare… Express gratitude to the host before you start recording, and then be transparent; the more great information you provide, the more results you’re gonna get from it. Then fourth is to have an offer to your website… One thing I do – I just give them an e-mail. I say “Here’s a guide that you can get. E-mail info@JoeFairless.com and we’ll get you the guide.” They e-mail, and then my assistant gives them the information, and then says “We’re gonna sign you up for our weekly exclusive newsletter”, and I’ve never had anyone say “No, don’t do that.” We just include them in there. But I think I need to be more sophisticated and actually have a landing page.
Jessica Rhodes: I like your personal touch though, Joe. I think that’s nice.
Joe Fairless: Okay, good, we’ll keep rolling with that then. And then the last thing is “Focus on the host.” Focus on them, because you’re gonna be building a relationship with them, and they’re an influencer, because other people are listening to them.
Thanks so much for being on the show. I hope you have a best ever weekend, Jessica, and we’ll talk to you soon.
Jessica Rhodes: Thanks, Joe.
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