Alex Olson fell in love with real estate while he and his wife were building their dream house. He met a mentor who advised him to get his commercial real estate license, and Alex soon developed a passion for representing 1031 exchange buyers looking for off-market multifamily and triple-net investments.
Today, Alex works as a senior real estate mentor at XChangeCRE. In this episode, he shares his top four tips for engaging with sellers off-market.
Alex’s approach when it comes to engaging potential sellers is to directly inform them that he has a 1031 exchange buyer interested in buying the property. He then asks what price might get the seller’s attention. “Not if you’re interested in selling, not if you’re interested in buying, but what’s the price that might get your attention? That kind of brings their guard down a little bit,” Alex says.
Although Alex represents 1031 buyers who are looking for off-market deals, he actually earns his commission from the sellers. There are several ways he addresses this in conversation based on the seller. “If they’re very quick to the point of, ‘stop wasting my time,’ I’m not going to even bring up commission until we need to,” Alex says.
With other sellers who are more open and eager to sell, Alex gets a commission letter assigned to them. He explains that the letter is not a listing, but that it states that the seller is going to pay him a commission if he delivers a qualified buyer. The letter also gives him exclusivity.
“We’ve had really good responses from all these methods,” Alex says. “There is an occasional, ‘I ain’t paying that,’ … but we get it figured out.”
Alex talks directly to sellers who are not represented by a broker and did not reach out to someone about their interest to sell. He advises treading lightly in this type of situation and coaching your buyers to do the same.
Alex learned this the hard way after a deal where the buyer and seller came to a disagreement on the inspection. The buyer pushed for the seller to pay for a $5K repair, and the seller reacted by refusing to sell. Alex ended up losing a decent-sized commission, and the experience gave him some much-needed perspective. Now he tells buyers this story and before raising a minor complaint with the seller, he asks them, “Is it worth losing this deal?”
Time and time again, Alex has been told by property owners that they will never sell — only to see them list the property on the market at a later date. This happened to him frequently when he only made calls every 90 days. Once he scaled back to making calls every 60 days, he saw greater success. “Persistence, timing, all that stuff is key,” Alex says. “‘No’ doesn’t always mean ‘no’ in real estate.”
Greatest lesson: Don't try to be anyone other than yourself, and use your strengths to maximize your potential.
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TRANSCRIPT
Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed and I'm here with Alex Olson. Alex is joining us from Kansas City, Missouri, where he is the senior real estate broker at Exchange CRE. He focuses on 1031-exchange buyers looking for off-market multifamily and triple-net investments. Very excited to ask you about that, Alex. Can you start us off with a little more about your background and what you're currently focused on?
Alex Olson: Yeah, so background was originally in marketing, consumer finance, I spent 15 years doing that, and then fell in love with real estate actually when we built our dream house, my wife and I.
Slocomb Reed: Nice.
Alex Olson: It sounds a bit weird, but you kind of learn about the financing side when you're doing some construction, and I had a passion for it then, and ended up buying some investment property using a home equity line of credit after we closed on our house...
Slocomb Reed: Nice.
Alex Olson: And then met a mentor who actually happened to be a cold call. I was cold-calling sellers in a particular pocket in Kansas City, and he's like, "Man, quit calling me." And he said, "Well, wait, hang on a second. We need to meet up." So we met up and he's like, "Yeah, man, go get your real estate license." So I hemmed and hawed on it for a few minutes, and then I went out and I got my real estate license and fell in love with the process of working with buyers, fell in love with, of course, all the tax benefits of a 1031 exchange, and here we are.
Slocomb Reed: Did you start in commercial real estate brokering deals, or did you start residential?
Alex Olson: Commercial.
Slocomb Reed: You started commercial. Why is that?
Alex Olson: Well, the main reason was because I had no appetite for the emotional piece, one. And two, probably equally as bad is all the showings; driving around, showing everybody and their mom, literally, houses to look at and not liking a paint color.
Slocomb Reed: That was my life for a while, so I get it.
Alex Olson: [laughs] There's no way I could do that. And in fact, that's actually what I pushed back on my mentor, was -- he's like, "Go get your license." I'm like, "I have zero interest in showing houses. There's no way I can do that." He says, "No, no, go get your broker license and find a commercial outfit." So that's exactly what I did.
Slocomb Reed: Alex, you and I are meeting for the first time right now and you seem like a great guy. I say this preface because I have a couple of questions I want to ask you based on the way that I introduced you. I'm going to end up painting a generally negative picture... And then I want you to correct me with the more accurate, likely more positive spin.
Alex Olson: We'll see.
Slocomb Reed: Just so you know, I'm an apartment owner-operator in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'd love to talk about a comparison between Cincinnati and KC later, but first, I ping a few brokers often about what's happening in the market. I do some of my own off-market lead generation as an investor-buyer, going direct to seller, and I do occasionally have brokers bring me things before they send them to the "open market".
So I know you work with buyers who are not in 1031 exchanges, but you focus on 1031 exchange buyers. You mentioned that you love the tax benefits of it. In my experience, the reason why 1031 buyers here in Cincinnati are the ones who are closing deals is just because they get to the point where they're desperate, they have to meet their timelines, and they're willing to write bigger offers in order to avoid a tax penalty. Is that why you prefer to work with them?
Alex Olson: [laughs] That is a great question. The overpaying part is not necessarily why I like working with them, but definitely having a timeline - that helps, that puts people and their needs in perspective. And I think if you go about it the right way... For example, I just had a call this morning with a gentleman who as a matter of fact met me by listening on a podcast... And he's got a deal he's not under contract on, but he's considering a 1031 exchange. And that's a perfect time to reach out to a broker such as myself and say "Hey, look, I'm thinking about doing this, I'm thinking about coming into your market. What's the best way to go about it?" And that timeline is very important for a 1031 exchange person. And we could talk all day about the benefits of a 1031 exchange, but it's really, if you do it the right way, about scaling up.
Slocomb Reed: We have a very sophisticated audience, the Best Ever audience. Let's assume that they are aware of the tax advantages of a 1031 exchange, and let's assume that they're familiar with the timelines, or they can go google them and look it up on Bigger Pockets. So yes. And to your point, knowing as a broker - I'm coming from the residential real estate agent perspective, and I have primarily worked with investors in that capacity... When I talk to other residential agents about working with investors, the first thing I tell them is "Your homebuyer who needs a home needs to buy. Your investor does not... Unless they're in a 1031 exchange, and they have a deadline and a tax bill looming."
Alex Olson: Exactly.
Slocomb Reed: So that makes sense. I know that there are several nuances to 1031 exchanges that have to be navigated. Ideally, a broker who knows their stuff is in a position to facilitate that, working with the attorneys, making sure the money is coming from the right places, and all the paperwork is in place as well.
I have one more question... You said you prefer to work with buyers; you're bringing them off market deals, so you have your own lead generation activities to identify sellers. All of the commercial brokers I know prefer to represent sellers. Why not do it that way? Why not reach out to sellers to represent them, and why focus on representing buyers?
Alex Olson: Yeah, I get asked that question a lot. I think first and foremost, I do understand and I know I'm leaving money on the table, likely, where I'm not actually getting the most bang for my buck sometimes... But when you're representing buyers, you can actually complete a lot more transactions. And I say that because if I look at last year when I did 30 transactions by myself, with a value of over $40 million, a million and a half dollar average sale size, I don't know a lot of brokers that can do that kind of number of transactions; maybe they can do more money, that's perfectly fine. But I just love doing deals. And so the best way I can do more deals is by working with buyers. Sellers, they have a different level of commitment, right? They expect amazing pro formas, or bulletproof, amazing marketing brochures, cold calling buyers, and really no matter what they think that their property is the best property on the market, nine times out of ten. So all those kind of aspects is not my favorite and not my cup of tea. So that's why we focus on buyers, because we do want them to get the best investment properties for them.
Slocomb Reed: I'm making an assumption here, Alex... You're doing something to reach out direct to seller, to identify opportunities for your buyers...
Alex Olson: Yup.
Slocomb Reed: So you are, at some point, probably getting on the phone, maybe getting in person, but probably getting on the phone first. When you're talking to an apartment owner about whether or not they're interested in selling, what's your pitch? How is it different from the brokers who are calling for a listing?
Alex Olson: A pitch is a lot different, I feel. The main difference is that I get their attention by saying "Hey, look, I've got a 1031 exchange buyer right now, who is actually interested in buying your property." And the main thing that they need to know is what kind of price might get your attention. Not if you're interested in selling, not if you're interested in buying, but what's the price that might get your attention? And that kind of brings them guard down a little bit and they say, "You know what? I'll think on that." Or, sure I get told to f off at times as well, but that's --
Slocomb Reed: Either either f off, or you get told some astronomical number that is well beyond what your clients are willing to pay, based on my experience going direct to seller.
Alex Olson: Yes, yes, exactly. But that gets the guard down, and it also takes the edge off of them thinking, "Geez, I've gotta go list this thing, I've got people trudging through my apartment complex, I've gotta have my property manager meet somebody over there, and then they find out about it... Now theyno longer care about my apartment complex..." So we try and eliminate all those excuses, to really get to the core aspect of buying and selling real estate, "Will you trade this piece of real estate for your price, to my buyer, that I know is gonna close out?" And that really does keep the conversation going, and we I think have had pretty good success on getting the attention of the seller.
Slocomb Reed: That makes a lot of sense. When I am going directly seller as a buyer, and I'm primarily focused on properties, I believe, that are smaller than what you're looking at, if your average is a million and a half... Not by choice, but because that's where I've had the most success, is from the four-family to the 12-unit, here; typically B to C class. My question is, the first question that someone who's helping me with acquisitions asks, which I'm going to give him credit, [unintelligible 00:11:21.00] who's also a commercial broker with Capstone, based out of Cincinnati, they're in several markets... His question when he's buying that I am co-opting and giving him credit for on the podcast is, "If I brought you the right offer, would you turn it down?"
Alex Olson: It's a good one, too.
Slocomb Reed: And it's a little more disarming than "Do you want to sell?" And then my acquisitions person, whoever's asking that question, follows up with "My boss is the one who's the expert, who can make you an actual offer, but do you have a price? Are there any other things? How's the building heated?" It's really important in Cincinnati for understanding expenses. And then I take it from there, and similar situation.
Let's transition this conversation, because there's one more thing I'd like to do, given that you're in Kansas City... You focus on multifamily and triple net. What would you say, in your experience - primarily tickling my own curiosity; I hope the Best Ever listeners get value from this... The 1031 buyers for triple net and for multifamily - what do you see as the biggest difference between those buyers?
Alex Olson: It's going to be about more hands-off. So how much time and effort do you want to put into actively managing something? And the triple net guys and gals are like, "Hey, I just want something where I'm parking my money, making a coupon clipper..." Maybe it's a single tenant, maybe there's three tenants in it. A couple million bucks. Maybe it's got a Dollar General in it...
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, they want the guarantee of a national brand. All the standard triple net stuff. Are you finding that your triple net buyers are higher net worth, higher 1099 or W-2 income? Are they less often local, or are they at a greater distance? Any of those kinds of things? Are all of those true/false?
Alex Olson: All those are true. So it's going to be out of state people, typically higher net worth, where the W-2 is three to 500,000 bucks. And there's not a ton, at least in our market, a ton of triple nets where it's below a million bucks. It does happen, especially with a national brand on it, but typically, you're gonna have--
Slocomb Reed: Would you say it's not often under a million.
Alex Olson: Right?
Slocomb Reed: Okay.
Alex Olson: Sometimes you can get a Dollar General... And we actually have sold a couple of them where they're six, seven, eight hundred thousand bucks for just that building.
Slocomb Reed: Sure.
Alex Olson: But typically, they're going to be 2 million. The lower in price on the triple net side, the much fewer options there are, just because it's a commercial building, right?
Slocomb Reed: Of course.
Alex Olson: So those people are typically in the two to five million range that they're looking at triple net lease options, and they're probably a little bit more experienced. They're probably just tired of dealing with multifamily, and so "Give me something easier to mess with."
Slocomb Reed: Given that last year your average sale price was 1.5 - that makes me think the multifamily deals you're doing are smaller, on average, than the triple net deals. Where does your average multifamily deal come in?
Alex Olson: It's probably about a 1.25, something like that.
Slocomb Reed: How many doors, what kind of location?
Alex Olson: So for, say, the average, you're looking at probably 10 to 20 units is kind of the average, and market class - you're probably in B and C sub markets, and B and C properties... So probably very similar to what you're seeing in your area. It just really depends on, of course, age, vintage, how much work somebody else has to -- is it a value-add, is it heavy value-add? But typically, right now you're looking at 80k to 120k a unit, depending on size and current rents.
Slocomb Reed: 80k to 120k a door, B and C class. How old are those buildings?
Alex Olson: Well, if you're in urban core, 100-year-old buildings that have been rehabbed over the years. Suburbs are '70s, '80s, '90s... Sometimes the ones especially at 120k a door, those can be newer builds, like 2005-2010, something like that, depending on the submarket.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. One quick question I forgot to ask when we were talking about your lead gen... Who pays your commission?
Alex Olson: The seller.
Slocomb Reed: The seller? Okay, gotcha. And thinking like an agent myself, and thinking about off-market lead gen... How do you have that conversation about commission when you are representing the buyer and being paid by the seller?
Alex Olson: How do I have that with the seller?
Slocomb Reed: Yes.
Alex Olson: There's a lot of different ways to do that. And it's really about me feeling out the seller. If they're very quick to the point of "Stop wasting my time. Yeah, sure, here's a T12. Here's a rent roll. Get out of my face" kind of thing, I'm not even gonna bring up commission until we need to. And that's part of the letter of intent, and it's clearly stated on the letter of intent, of what they're going to pay.
And then there's other people that either we've done obviously past transactions with, or somebody who's more open and kind of wants to sell - we will actually go out and get a commission letter assigned to them. It's not a listing, and we present it that way. "Hey, look, this isn't a listing. All this is is a commission letter saying you're going to pay me a commission if we bring you a qualified buyer, etc, etc. And oh, by the way, we're going to want an exclusive on it, so if somebody else comes by and says hey, look, I want to buy this property, you'll figure out some kind of way to compensate us." And we've had really good response from all of these methods.
There is an occasional "I ain't paying that", or whatever kind of thing that goes on, but we get it figured out.
Break: [00:16:48.01] to [00:18:35.10]
Slocomb Reed: Let's transition... I'm primarily a residential agent. I buy commercial multifamily, but only occasionally have I represented buyers and sellers for commercial multifamily. I have, but not often. That being said, I know a handful of real estate investors who started in Kansas City, wanted to expand into a new market, came to Cincinnati and had some serious difficulty. They liked the market because it had similar fundamentals, similar cashflow and similar growth on the MSA level. But I don't know any of those investors who have experienced the success in Cincinnati that they experienced in Kansas City. And to summarize their reasoning for that, it is easier to track growth and redevelopment in Kansas City than it is in Cincinnati. So the question, Alex, here, is "How do you know where the path of progress is in Kansas City?"
Let me give the Cincinnati answer to that question first. So Cincinnati is very splotchy. There are a couple of places that are hot, that are obvious. Over the Rhine and Oakley a few years ago, my elevator pitch on what's the next neighborhood was you put a pin in OTR, you put a pin in Oakley, and then you draw your radius. The farther you go out, the less hot it is, but the closer you are, the more redevelopment and growth you're going to see, if it's not already done.
However, there are lots of little pockets all over the city that are seeing lots of growth. And for people who didn't grow up here, or for people who are not local, it's really hard to tell where those are, which trendy little downtown street corner neighborhoods are going to be next, and which ones aren't. And the people from KC tell me that it's just much easier to track and it's much easier to know where the path of progress is there. There are so many little places in Cincinnati, you've got to put a pin and it grows out from there. And sometimes that pin in a neighborhood like College Hill is just an intersection or two that you're starting in. And that's going to get hot, and it's going to grow out from there, but you also don't know how quickly, because it's happening all over the city. Talk to us about the path of progress, where you're seeing growth and development, increasing property values and rent rates in Kansas City.
Alex Olson: So I'm not an expert in the Cincinnati market, so I appreciate you talking me through that...
Slocomb Reed: Of course, that's why I tried to open up with an explanation.
Alex Olson: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that. So in Kansas City, I think part of it is the streetcar had a lot to do with generating a huge amount of economic development. There's $4 billion worth of growth there.
Slocomb Reed: We just got one of those too, and it didn't do anything.
Alex Olson: I've heard that. I actually -- I've read that.
Slocomb Reed: All of the economic growth pre-dated the streetcar, where the streetcar is currently. If we can get it up the hill into uptown, into Clifton, then I think there's some neighborhoods in that kind of void between downtown and uptown. Anyways, we're talking about KC. Go first.
Alex Olson: [laughs] They are expanding the streetcar, right? So then they're not adding on another two mile track. So the first development did 4 billion in economic development. Now the hope is, even though it's twice as long, if we can just get another 2 to 4 billion out of that, That'd be awesome. So that's part of the hope there. Then you have - which is really not even talked about yet, But you guys already have a downtown baseball stadium. We don't.
Slocomb Reed: We downtown baseball, football, basketball/hockey/concert venue and soccer now, all within - as brokers, we're not supposed to say walking distance; all within very close proximity of bars, restaurants and hotels. You're right.
Alex Olson: It's awesome. Yeah, so you guys already have all that. We're trying to get -- the new owner of the Royals is pretty heavy on putting something downtown, and I'm a huge proponent of that.
Slocomb Reed: Nice.
Alex Olson: So that'll be another boost. And then you also have just some really strong growth in the suburbs. Overland Park in Johnson County is just a continuous economic development center, where there's very high net worth individuals, it's grown from 50,000 to now I think it's 200,000... Same thing on the Missouri side, where you have [unintelligible 00:22:53.21] that's also seing that kind of explosive growth in those towns...
So again, I don't know the specifics of Cincinnati, but we've seen population growth in the suburbs a lot, as well as downtown. And I think that has pushed, in general, almost every sub market to have some pretty dang good growth. And just like Cincinnati, and maybe you guys are a master of one, but we don't have anything that we are super "Oh my gosh, that's what we're known for", other than barbecue. But as far as like employment centers go, we've got some large employers around healthcare and hospitals, etc. But we really just are kind of good at everything. We've got a tech scene, we've got a new $2 billion airport coming in, where we have a lot of freight tonnage coming in... It's not just about passengers, it's also a lot about them expanding the amount of Amazon airplanes that can come in, or UPS airplanes that can come in... And intermodal; we have a lot of rail line here, where we're able to ship and transport packages coming all over the country in the center of the country.
So I think those are driving a lot of the economics where it really does spread out all over the metro, to where -- you can definitely miss. We've had people miss on where they're investing, but it's harder to miss because almost every submarket we're seeing some form of growth, some form or redevelopment in that aspect, with raising rents. So it is harder to miss, I guess is the best thing I could say.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Yeah. The sentiment I have heard many times is that investors who are coming here from Kansas City, even when we bring them deals that meet all of their number of criteria, they never feel as confident about the trajectory of the neighborhood here as they do there. And now, I'm not making a gross generalization about the two MSAs that growth is easier or happening more in Kansas City than it is here in Cincinnati. Cincinnati does feel more complicated. We have a lot of growth and redevelopment. It's just that you have to be closer to the pavement, beating it in fact, to know necessarily where growth is here. Awesome. Well, hey, Alex, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Alex Olson: Let's do it, man. I'm ready.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. What is the best ever book that you've recently read?
Alex Olson: Best Ever book I've recently read... I don't know how recent is, I've actually had a bad string of books... But Sam Zell's book, "Am I being too subtle?" is the best out there for somebody who doesn't want a how-to book, but it's like a biography, which is awesome. An autobiography.
Slocomb Reed: It's a fun one. And he narrates the audible version too, which I find really helpful when the author narrates, especially when it's on a biography.
Alex Olson: Yeah, for sure, it's a good point.
Slocomb Reed: It's a lot of fun. I love the way that he tells stories in that book, too. And as a fellow entrepreneur - very different entrepreneur; not nearly as big as Sam Zell, of course - especially hearing him tell the story, I resonated a lot with a lot of the struggles that he went through. So that's great. Alex, what is your best way to give back?
Alex Olson: I love getting back to homeownership being a key economic driver for somebody. There's so many low income families and communities that don't understand how much wealth that can bring them. It's not a get rich quick scheme, but if you can own your own home, you are so much further ahead than anybody else. And anybody, almost anybody in this country can own their own home. It's just a matter of helping people understand that. So anytime I can help educate people on ways to do that is a great opportunity for me.
Slocomb Reed: Nice. As a commercial broker, focusing on 1031 buyers, triple net and multifamily, what is the biggest mistake you've made and the best ever lesson that resulted from it?
Alex Olson: A couple big mistakes was... When I'm working with a buyer - I'll tell you a quick story - where he was very much interested in a property, and the seller was being a little bit too smart about it. I didn't represent the seller, I represented the buyer. And they came to disagreement on the inspection. And my client ended up losing the deal over a $5,000 repair.
Slocomb Reed: On a purchase price of what?
Alex Olson: A million bucks. So what happened was is the seller comes and says, "Hey, look, I don't even want to sell this anymore. I changed my mind." The buyer opened up negotiations... "I'm not selling anymore." And this was after a week of trying to come to terms on this $5,000 credit or whatever it was. And the buyer ended up taking a look at it and then saying, "Hey, they can't do that. We're under contract." They're really kind of pushing back, and like "I don't care about the $5,000 anymore. Let's just get this thing done."
So I learned a lot from that transaction. Obviously, there was a decent-sized commission on the line, but it really refocuses again on the buyer to say, "Hey, look, are you worth losing this deal over $5,000, or over X, Y, and Z, or over a new hot water heater, or something?" and putting that in perspective is what I've learned from that.
So I always tell people that story actually, like "Hey, look, I've got a client of mine in the past who lost a deal over $5,000. So are you wanting to go back to the seller and say, "Hey, Mr. Seller, or Mrs. Seller, this hot water heater is broken. You need to replace it, because it's the right thing to do"? Or are you okay with just saying "You know what - screw it, I'll just replace it myself, out of my own pocket." So that is been the best lesson for me.
Slocomb Reed: It is easy to forget how emotional people are, especially as you said yourself, Alex, at the beginning of this conversation, you went direct to commercial instead of residential because it was a less emotional process. But people still make decisions emotionally. They may justify them rationally. In fact, they definitely justify them rationally. I'm thinking of Jonathan Haidt's Elephant and the Rider. But especially when you're going off-market, and talking directly to sellers who are not represented by a broker, who did not reach out to someone about their interest to sell, they are emotional beings and you have to, as the broker, you and me, but also as the buyer, you have to recognize that you are playing with someone's emotions when you re-trade.
So our next question, what is your best ever advice, Alex? I want to ask it through different ways. For brokers like you and me, and other people who are going direct to seller, looking for opportunities, what is your best ever advice?
Alex Olson: Be persistent. I've been told a billion times - I'm sure you have, too - "I'm never selling. I'm not gonna sell. There's no way I'm ever selling." And lo and behold, if you're not persistent with them, you'll see some of those start to pop up on the market, and you'll be like, "Well, hang on a second. I thought this guy told me he's never going to sell." And I've learned my lesson like that many times in the past, where I used to only call people every 90 days, and I had started seeing these things like "This guy told me he is never gonna sell, or this gal, and now it's on the market." So I scaled that back to 60 days, and I've had a lot better success, a lot fewer of those that told me they're never going to sell, seeing those in the market. So persistence, timing, all that stuff is key. No doesn't always mean no in real estate.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. And what is your best ever advice for investor buyers who are coming across the opportunities that you are bringing, with off market sellers?
Alex Olson: Look at the long-term impact to your wealth that this property will generate. And I say that because so many people put themselves in a box of "This deal is never going to work for me. But then there's so many different examples of a year or two ago when these properties were actually being sold, that they're worth 20%-30% more, and this person who's bought it has put nothing into it. And they're able to sell it because of the appreciation, and depreciation, all these other aspects. People -- I know they're syndicating sometimes, I know that they're very hard on their numbers, it's got to fit a certain box... But if I think it's a really good deal, and I'm pushing you on it, I'm pretty sure it's probably going to be a good deal and you're going to figure out a way to make money on this deal. So don't just put yourself in a very specific buyer box of "I only buy in this location, at this point in time." You can do that, but occasionally look at other opportunities and take advantage of those
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. And for our Best Ever listeners, Alex, where can people get in touch with you?
Alex Olson: Go to my website, xchangecre.com, or email me at Alex [at] xchangecre.com.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome, and those links are in the show notes. Alex, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well for tuning in. If you've gained value from this conversation about engaging with sellers off-market, comparison between Midwestern markets, please do subscribe to our show. Leave us a five star review for this episode, and share this episode with a friend that you know that we can add value to. Thank you, and have a best ever day.
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