Each week for the Best Ever Round Table, the three Best Ever Show hosts — Ash Patel, Slocomb Reed, and Travis Watts — come together for a deep dive into a commercial real estate investing topic.
In this episode, Ash, Slocomb, and Travis discuss the ins and outs of networking. They cover why it’s important to grow your network, what they have done to grow their own networks both online and offline, and their top tips for networking at a conference.
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TRANSCRIPT
Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm joined today by Travis Watts and Slocomb Reed. Travis and Slocomb are fellow co-hosts for the Best Ever podcast. This is our Weekly Round Table, where we pick a topic and share our discussions with all of you. On today's episode, we're going to do a deep-dive into networking. And the definition of networking is the action or process of interacting with others to exchange information and develop personal or social contacts. Travis, Slocomb, if you would, please introduce yourselves.
Travis Watts: Sure, happy to do. Travis Watts, full-time passive investor and director of Investor Relations with Ashcroft Capital and Joe Fairless.
Slocomb Reed: And I am Slocomb Reed, an apartment owner-operator in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Ash Patel: And I'm Ash Patel. I am a non-residential commercial investor. Gentleman, let's dive right into it. First question, why is it important to grow your network? I'll start with you, Travis. Please.
Travis Watts: Sure. The first thoughts that come to mind with networking - obviously, real estate's very networking-focused, as compared to a lot of other industries. And the way I look at it is all success that any of us have had or will ever have is really the result of working with other people in some form or fashion. So if you're an LP like I am, then I had to network to find a GP. The GPs have to network to find the LPs. You have to work with realtors and brokers in the single-family space or in your commercial space... So no matter how you spin it, there's a level of networking that has to be done. It would be completely weird and uncommon to just be out there investing in people's deals and never talking to them, at least in the real estate space. I know you could do that with stocks. But anyway, that's kind of my high-level. Why it's important is because it's the only way in real estate, I think, that you make real success and progress.
Ash Patel: Awesome. Slocomb, your thoughts - why is it important to grow your network?
Slocomb Reed: I resonate a lot with what Travis just said. Real estate, a lot of people are attracted to it because the asset is tangible, but it's really a people business. Every business partner that I have outside of family, I met through targeted networking efforts. As a real estate agent, the vast majority of my clients came through networking. Some of them came from lead gen, cold calls, things like that, but the vast majority came from networking. As is the case with a lot of sales-driven industries, you can advertise and get clients and make sales. Networking is much more likely to lead to long-term business, because if you're treating people like a relationship that you want to foster and people you want to add value to, you're going to be able to continue to work with them, continue to give to them and receive from them in the long-term. That's almost always the result of networking.
Ash Patel: I agree with both of you, and I'm going to share a story. I often learned things the hard way. I've been called hardheaded, and here's a good example. I was in real estate for maybe three years, and I was a one-man shop. Everything I did, I was just huddled in front of my computer; didn't really network a whole lot. Matter of fact, a lot of people didn't even know that I had transitioned from IT to real estate. And after a few years in real estate, things started getting harder, and I assumed we were at a peak and I made excuses about too many coastal investors coming into the Midwest, cap rates are compressed, the market's going to have a downturn... I was definitely wrong about that by a number of years. But what I've found was I looked at people like Slocomb and others who were still growing their businesses, that were growing their teams, and they were taking down great deals, and I asked myself, 'What are they doing that I'm not?" And it turns out they were just putting themselves out there. They were networking. They were marketing themselves. So I started putting a lot of social media posts out there. I offered to mentor people... This led to a lot of lunches and meetings, and all of a sudden, the deals just started coming in. So I learned that networking lesson the hard way.
The next question for you guys is what have you done to grow your network offline?
Travis Watts: Great question. I think, well, specifically, I guess, offline, right? So leading up to the pandemic, I was so bullish and outspoken on these in-person events. So it was all about, it's got to be in person, it's got to be face to face. And then, of course, our world got turned upside down. I had to reinvent the wheel. So that led to online, to Instagram and to Facebook and to LinkedIn and to BiggerPockets and stuff like that. But I'm still huge -- we had to skip last week's recording episode because I was at an in-person event in the Carolinas, and I'm still huge on it. I still believe if you can do in-person, try to do that, but there's still a lot of other ways that you can network, if that's not practical or you don't have the time or the resources to do it; a lot of different online forums, different virtual meetup groups that exist today that didn't 5-10 years ago. So however you do it, online or offline, there's a lot of different ways to approach it.
Ash Patel: Travis, in terms of offline network, do you do a lot of group events, or do you do a lot of individual meetings as well?
Travis Watts: Good question. I used to do the one-on-one stuff, the "Hey, let me get you a coffee or buy dinner or lunch or whatever and pick your brain", kind of stuff. That ROI just really isn't there the majority of the time. So I prefer to go to events where there's at least 200 people plus. That way, you have a lot of networking opportunities. The worst thing is to go travel somewhere, to spend half a day to meet up with someone that just wants to sales pitch you, [laughs] at the end of it. So that's my take on it.
I prefer conferences that's going to have like-minded people that show up, but I also like the local real estate meetup environment as well. Slocomb, I know you're real big on that. I think you both are, actually. So yeah, I still attend those, where maybe there's 50 to 100 people, but still feels a little bit like a community. I think there's some great things to be said for that.
Ash Patel: Awesome. Slocomb, your thoughts on offline in-person networking?
Slocomb Reed: Absolutely. So as Travis was saying, I met Joe Fairless for the first time through his networking meetup here locally, Cincinnati's Best Ever Real Estate Investor Mastermind, which I now post and run for Joe. When I saw the caliber of people in that room, and I saw that it was better than any of the other networking opportunities that I had found for real estate investing in Cincinnati, I decided I wanted to own that room. I was going to be proactive. I was going to take every opportunity to add value, to host. For those of you who have seen me in person, I'm a large man with a deep, loud voice, and for some reason, people just tend to do what I tell them to do. So I make a great host for a networking meetup, because everyone does sit down and shut up when I tell them to. Also, I wanted to teach as much as I was learning in that room.
Anecdotally, real quick, guys, I had the opportunity a few years ago to represent Brandon Turner of BiggerPockets with the purchase of an apartment complex here in the Cincinnati area. As soon as that transaction was complete, I went to the people running the meetup back then and I said, "Hey, I just got done representing Brandon Turner. He gave me permission to talk about it. I want to give a talk about the top five things I learned from representing Brandon Turner in the purchase of apartments", which of course, that's a title that'll pack the room. So I did. I gave that. I think it went pretty well. Several people wanted to come up to me after that. One of them said, "Hi, my name's Ben. Sounds like you're the agent I need to help me find good real estate deals." I said, "Great." I helped him find a couple of things. We became partners, and then we, eventually, together, bought from Brandon the apartment complex that I had sold to him a couple of years before.
So taking an active, assertive role in adding value to others through things like networking meetups - absolutely. Taking leadership, taking ownership over those kinds of activities and making sure that you're leading with the value that you can offer to others is going to attract them to you, in whatever capacity it is that you need to meet people.
Ash Patel: I love it. Great advice. I'll share my thoughts on in-person networking, and it echoes both of your thoughts. Travis, I'll hit on your thought first. The individual meetings, lunches, coffee - I struggle with those, because I'm defensive with my time. And I look at the amount of work that I have backlogged, and then taking that much time out for a meeting - there has to be a purpose, there has to be takeaways. And even if the takeaway is I get to significantly add value to the person that I'm meeting with, that's okay; but just these nonsensical social lunches in the middle of the day, I can't do it. I can't do the coffees. There's got to be a driven purpose.
And on the flip side, every time I do one of these meetings, I think to myself, "Man, I'v got to do more of these", because even if there's a little bit of value, a little bit of takeaway that you leave with, it's still a benefit, and it kind of refreshes your mind, bouncing things off of people in person versus on the phone. So yeah, it's a struggle for me. I keep meaning to get back out and do more lunches, I just haven't made the time yet. But Travis, you also touched on coffee. How often do you guys get hit up, "Hey, I'd love to buy you coffee and pick your brain"? And what are your thoughts on that approach?
Travis Watts: [laughs] It's a good question. That's a very common and a very entry-level style of networking, I think. You see a lot of people who are just getting started do that kind of stuff. The simple math is this... You've got to know your time value. I think that's really important. Not many people talk about it. We've talked about it in the show briefly before, but simple math is like, if you make $100,000 per year as an income, your time value is somewhere in the ballpark of about 50 per hour. So you've got to think about prepping for that meeting, taking notes, showing up, coming home, gas, et cetera. And granted, they're maybe buying your lunch or buying your coffee, but man, if it's not gourmet seafood and some really, really awesome drinks on a rooftop patio, I'm probably not going to show up. But yeah, I find that mostly it's me just ranting and raving at those kinds of meetups, because it's usually a pick-your-brain kind of scenario. I try to learn as much as I can, but like I said, usually it's someone just getting started, so it's kind of a one-sided deal.
So I used to do them a lot, just in hopes that it would be value for value, but I would say almost 40% of those meetups ended up in some kind of sales pitch aimed at my direction. If it wasn't pick your brain, it was, "Hey, just so you know, I sell insurance. So if you're ever looking for that on your properties [laughs]-- and so I just quit doing it. It's better to be at a large meetup, like I said, for me.
Ash Patel: Yeah, that sucks. Back in the day, I used to get pitched by Amway people when I was in high school.
Travis Watts: Yeah.
Ash Patel: And I often ask people what the purpose of the meetup is. Why are we having lunch? And if it's, "I just want to catch up with you and see what's going on", uh-uh; there's got to be a better purpose. Happy to do a social gathering at some point, but I'm not wasting time unless you have a clear agenda. Slocomb, your thoughts on the whole, "Let me buy you coffee."
Slocomb Reed: Ahs, so the point you just made - the vast majority of my friends are in real estate in some capacity and every single one of them is someone I can learn something from. So if it is just a friend who wants to get together for breakfast or something like that, I make sure I have a topic in mind, something that we can discuss where I can glean some knowledge from them or they can glean some knowledge from me. I still do take those one-on-ones.
A couple of notes there and pieces of advice for our Best Ever listeners. When you think about, let's call it the expected value transaction - am I expecting to give more, receive more? Am I expecting it to be equal during this conversation? - the more that I'm expecting to receive, the more I'm willing to inconvenience myself for the meeting. If it's a very high-value meeting or a high-value opportunity to me, I'll drive an hour. I'll make sure I have some calls scheduled on the way there, some calls scheduled on the way back. Even if it's just for a 30-minute meeting. If I'm expecting to be more on the giving end, but I have another good reason to take that meeting, whoever we're meeting with is coming to me. My office, there's a coffee shop a half a block away. We can walk over there if we have to. But if I'm expecting to be on the giving end, people are coming to me.
That said, the vast majority of the time when I'm scheduling something like a coffee or a lunch, it's because I expect there is potential for a future working relationship that necessitates more than a phone call. Because a lot of the things that we're talking about can be accomplished with a phone call, especially if you go into that phone call with a plan. But also, most of the time when I'm taking that in-person meeting, I'm presenting it as a mutually beneficial opportunity - there's something I have that you need, there's something that you have that I need, and the coffee is the opportunity for us to exchange that knowledge; that sphere, that network, whatever it is. I try to keep it as mutually beneficial as possible if I'm actually going to meet with someone in person,
Ash Patel: Great points. I'll share my opinion, and I'll touch on some of the things that both of you said. To Travis's point, "Let me buy you coffee" is kind of an amateur, rookie approach. There's a big Silicon alley VC named Naval Ravikant. And he bought the domain Idontdocoffee, because it's just - again, a beginner approach. Come more direct. And I like people that say, "Hey, can we do breakfast?" Because it almost takes your time into consideration. It's very difficult, a lot of days, when you get wrapped up in the middle of the day, when you're getting bombarded by unexpected things that, all of a sudden, you can remove yourself and go hour, hour and a half, two-hour lunch. So I think breakfast is a good approach.
And the best approach that I've seen is where people will find your favorite restaurant by stalking you on social media or find something close to where you live, and they'll say, "Hey, here's three choices of restaurants near where you live." I love that approach, and I almost feel obligated to do that, if they've put the time and effort into finding those locations. In terms of adding value - I'm an extreme extrovert, so any time somebody wants to do a lunch, everything inside me, "Yes, I want to go." So it's a fair amount of discipline for me to be defensive of my time. So, great points on this.
And Slocomb, you mentioned you met Joe Fairless at the physical meetup. I actually met Joe on BiggerPockets. He reached out to me and asked if I would be on his podcast. And then I found out he was local, we had lunch. So let's dive into online networking. Slocomb, let's start with you. What have you done to network with others online?
Slocomb Reed: Vast majority of my online networking is through BiggerPockets, and I used it a lot more when I was new and I needed more people than I need now. I have a really good team in place, all of the vendors, service providers. I get the vast majority of those people by referral now. I will say, and I have said this before in a previous Round Table episode, when I was new to real estate investing and just figuring out about BiggerPockets, about RIA, other local meetups, figuring out that there are communities of people like me, like us, that I could connect with. I went to BiggerPockets and I made the most clickbaity post that I possibly could. This was before they had the new member joining forum, Announce Yourself. And I knew that BiggerPockets had a keyword search, so I just listed all of the keywords that could possibly trigger anyone's email notification for my post, something like, "Hey, I just got approved for $100,000 line of credit in Cincinnati, Ohio. What would you do with my money?" Whenever you ask the internet for its opinion, it gives it to you a lot.
And then I took that and I went into the profile of every single person who commented, to Ash's point. I often feel like Ash spends two-thirds of his life in due diligence on something, a person or a property or a prospective tenant or a lender. Anyways, I did my due diligence on all the people who commented, and any of them who were local to Cincinnati, I read their profile, I sent them a message and said, "Hey, Tyler, I'd love to connect with you, hear a little bit more about your house flipping, see if there's a way that I can add value to you, you can add value to me", and I did the coffee thing. I met a lot of [inaudible 00:19:29] back then looking to meet people. I would say, from all the rambling that I just did, the nuggets of wisdom would be, it's a lot more helpful to do that kind of scatter shot networking when you're newer, and BiggerPockets was absolutely the best place for it to be done when I was doing it a handful of years ago.
Break: [00:19:47] to [00:21:34]
Ash Patel: Travis, I wanted to touch back on your point where you would choose a phone call with an individual, and I do that often as well. There's people that want to meet in person and I'd say, "Listen, I'm slammed for the rest of the week. Happy to do a phone call or jump on a Zoom call." So that's a great way to determine if it's worth your time to do an in-person meeting. I wanted to touch back on that. So Travis, your thoughts on online networking.
Travis Watts: To your last point there, I embedded the Zoom feature link into my Calendly, and my Calendly kind of runs my Monday through Fridays, if you will. So I throw that out there to the world for anyone and everyone. And a lot of people take that opportunity to do the face-to-face meetup. Whether we're talking Ashcroft Capital, whether we're just talking personal investing or it's me wanting to reach out to someone else, it makes it super easy, super convenient. We don't have to email back and forth, "Does Monday next week work? How about Tuesday? What about Thursday?" It's just a streamlined process. So to answer your question, again, since the pandemic, which pre-pandemic I really wasn't on a lot of social media very actively. I became extremely active on a lot of different forums. And you have to know your audience is the biggest lesson learned. So I was posting so much, as we discussed on our previous episode, on Instagram couple 100 posts, very few accredited investors truly interested in reaching out on what I was trying to post on. However, on LinkedIn, not even a third of that amount of posts. I've networked with hundreds of individual accredited investors who truly are real people interested in doing what it is I do.
So I've shifted a lot of focus those directions, to your point, Slocomb, with BiggerPockets. That was a good entry point. There's a lot of wholesalers, house flippers, realtors, people buying up single-family duplexes, house hacking. It's a very first and second-step platform as you get up into what Ash and I do. I'm not going to speak for you, Ash, but my experience on there has been that a lot of high-net-worth people really aren't on there necessarily looking for the kinds of deals that I partner in. So that's kind of been my take from a high level. But the beauty is, one last thing I mentioned, going to all these in-person conferences nationwide, a lot of people are just frankly too busy to do it - [laughs] the dentist and the doctor, the medical professional. They're not traveling like I am. So I'm missing so much opportunity if I limit myself to only my local market and only real estate conferences. And I found a lot of those folks through LinkedIn and online, shall we say.
Ash Patel: Awesome. I want to share, also, the BiggerPockets networking. Years ago, I would jump on the commercial forum, which is way smaller than residential or multifamily. And anytime I could add value to somebody or ask a good question, I would jump on there and I would thank people for some of the posts that they've posted, especially if they took the time to write a long multi-paragraph answer to somebody's question. And with all of this networking, I think there's a turning point where initially you put yourself out there so much, and then when you finally cross the threshold, the networking becomes more incoming. So for a lot of our Best Ever listeners who don't have a big network put the time and effort and put yourself out there. And at some point when you get established, I think you get more incoming leads and you no longer have to outwardly network. Do you guys find that to be the case?
Travis Watts: Yeah. I still find people finding podcast episodes, blogs I did on BiggerPockets years ago and then reaching out because of them. So, absolutely. That's a good point, something I missed.
Ash Patel: Yeah. And in terms of conferences and networking, I think this should be a future topic, how to effectively network at a conference, but what's one tip that you guys used when you're at a conference to network?
Travis Watts: I'll start real quick because I just got back from one, and this is always an annoyance of mine, it's kind of two-parter, have a business card always. It's so discouraging when you ask and someone doesn't or it's like, "Oh, I have this app", and then the app doesn't work, or, "Let me take a picture of your business card. I don't have one to give you in return." Just have a business card, and not just that, put your face on the business card because the worst thing after a conference in a stack full of cards is, "Who is John Smith and what does he do again? I can't remember." And then you can't find him on social media because you don't have a picture to match up. I remember people by their face, primarily, and I know that's not the case with everyone, but those two things. I can't tell you how many countless times I've not been at a conference and not had a business card on me, and I really regret it.
It's just like this random serendipity and you're at the dentist and you find out he's accredited investor and he's interested in multifamily, and then-- I was having a surgery done years ago like this and just about to go under., and we just got into the real estate conversation. By the time I woke up, I was so out of it and just missed the opportunity. We ended up moving, never had the conversation. It just sucked. That would've been such an easy thing to do is offline, "Give me a call when you're ready, and let's just have a quick chat about it", and I missed that opportunity. So that'd be my thing.
Ash Patel: Thanks for sharing that. Slocomb, your thoughts on a tip to effectively network at a conference.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah. Thank you, Ash. I need to plug Travis here. The Best Ever Conference in February of 2022 was my first commercial real estate investing conference. And I went into that with a business card that I designed based on Travis's advice from his Actively Passive show episode about business cards. My face on the front of that card is absolutely massive. And my name is Slocomb. You can Google me; you don't need my face. But I ended up making the decision, for a handful of reasons, to go by myself instead of with my family, my wife and my then two-and-a-half-year-old daughter who would've absolutely loved the pool and some of the other amenities of the resort. But going by myself allowed me to take advantage of as many opportunities as I possibly could without having to be mindful of when I was getting back to the hotel room, do I need to see my daughter a couple of times so that she's not wondering where I am.
One of the things that I learned back when I was doing a lot more leadership and general business conferences in my 20s was that I learned that I wasn't going to go to bed until there weren't any more opportunities left that day. And specific to the Best Ever Conference, there was always someone who's operating, an incredibly high level, doing what they're doing, who's ready to just go get one more drink or some chicken fingers until 1:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning. And you don't think about 1:00 AM value-added conversations, but I had 1:00 AM value-added conversations every single night that I was at the Best Ever Conference. So you see who the celebrity speakers are going to be, great lineup, but at least half of the value in a networking conference like that is not coming from the speakers; it's coming from the opportunities to network. Have those value-added conversations during and outside of the normal conference session hours.
Ash Patel: I love it. Such great advice from both of you. I don't have my face on my business card and I don't know if I would put it on there, but I carry business cards everywhere, all the cards that we have. My wife and I used to carry each other's cards in my wallet or in her purse so if we're ever out and we needed a card, but carry a business card everywhere - your binders, your wallet, your car, your luggage if you're traveling. Just everywhere, you should have business cards. And Travis, to your point, there was a young kid, probably 20 years old, at the Best Ever Conference. I asked him for a card - and he was one of the sponsors - and he's like, "Here, you can scan this", and I I'm like, "No, I'm not scanning it. Find a card. Make a card. Don't come to this conference next year without a card." He's like, "But this is all we have." Unacceptable. You want a card.
And then to your point, if your face is not on your card, by the end of the night after the 2:00, 3:00 AM conversations, you end up in your room with a bunch of cards. What do you do? One of the things that I did was I kept the voice memo option on my phone open all the time. So if I was going to get a drink or if I just left the conversation, I would hit the record button and say Slocomb Reed from Cincinnati, multifamily investor. I would just take a quick note so later on I can match up the card to actual information about that person.
We've got a lot more to cover, but I think we're running out of time. I would love to do a Part 2 with you guys next week if you're up for it. I want to talk about CRM systems, what people do correctly, what they do incorrectly when it comes to networking, and how networking has specifically helped your business. If you guys are good with that, please, Slocomb, let's start with you and summarize any key points or takeaways from today's discussion.
Slocomb Reed: One of the things I said at the beginning that I didn't take much opportunity to continue on is that long-term growth and long-term business relationships are almost always the result of networking. They're almost always proportional to the amount of effort that goes into those relationships at the beginning. Networking is the long-term play for building your business. A friend of mine is exclusively in residential investing. He's a single-family wholesaler, but he's grossing, in wholesale fees per year, upwards of $400,000. And he's worked on referral only for the last three years. He doesn't even look for sellers anymore because of how heavily he networked the first three, four years that he was doing it. Those kinds of things, success and sustainable business, just growth and real estate is almost always a result of networking.
Ash Patel: Slocomb, thank you. Travis, your final thoughts, any key points or takeaways from this conversation?
Travis Watts: Yeah. One thing we didn't address but what's coming to mind right now is a quote by Richard Branson, "Listen more than you talk because nobody learned anything by hearing themselves speak." So at any type of big networking event or real estate meetup, ask people about themselves. It's always about them, it's not about you. Figure out how you could potentially add value, to Slocomb's point, by listening to them speak.
Ash Patel: When I was a young guy in Jersey, one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever gotten is people love to talk about themselves, which is exactly what you just said. So, incredible advice. Thank you for that. My takeaways are, again, I learned the hard way, but once I started networking, putting myself out there, my business just-- it's like on steroids. And I look at the time wasted when I was a one-person shop, and I wish I had known this earlier. So some of you, Best Ever listeners that are starting out, please take this advice. Networking is going to be a big key to your success.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time and a great conversation. Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us and please join us again next week for another Round Table episode. If you enjoy this episode, please leave us a five-star review, share the podcast with someone you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe, and have a best every day.
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