Each week for the Best Ever Round Table, the three Best Ever Show hosts — Ash Patel, Slocomb Reed, and Travis Watts — come together for a deep dive into a commercial real estate investing topic.
In this episode, Ash, Slocomb, and Travis discuss the different ways they use social media to promote their businesses, along with their best tips and biggest online mistakes.
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TRANSCRIPT
Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I'm Ash Patel and this is the weekly Round Table with my two co-hosts, Slocomb Reed and Travis Watts. Today we're going to be discussing effectively using social media for real estate. Before we get started, I'm going to ask Slocomb and Travis to do a quick introduction of themselves. Slocomb, let's start with you.
Slocomb Reed: Hi, I'm Slocomb Reed. I am an apartment owner-operator in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Travis Watts: Hey, everybody. Travis Watts, full-time passive investor, mostly multifamily syndications, and director of investor relations with Joe Fairless at Ashcroft Capital.
Ash Patel: Ash Patel, I am a non-residential commercial investor. So guys, let's dive right into it. First question, I want to know how you currently use social media for your real estate business. Slocomb, let's start with you.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, unfortunately, I'm gonna have the most disappointing answer out of the three of us. I'm not using social media much at all right now. That's something I plan to do a better job of here soon. I'd like to hear from you all, what purposes you use social media for. I can't say that I don't use it at all; I use it to organize meetups. As a real estate agent and as an investor, I've used meetups to gain clients and meet potential partners, form partnerships, build other relationships in my sphere. Social media primarily I use for coordinating in-person events right now.
Travis Watts: Awesome. You know, Ash, I jumped in pre-pandemic a little bit, and not very aggressively, because I was doing a lot of in-person events leading up to that timeframe. So about April and May of 2020, I got on as many platforms as I knew about, just to experiment in, because in-person conferences and meetups went away, at least in the short term.
So it has evolved, definitely. I have found some to be way more useful than others, but I did a lot of experimenting on Instagram, I did a couple of hundred posts there. I joined Facebook, made a public page there, LinkedIn, BiggerPockets... I could go on and on, but I ended up trailing off and trimming the fat, so to speak, over the last couple of years, when I saw certain platforms being more effective than others. So my primary objective, as always, is to educate and network with accredited investors, and that's what I use social media for. But still, I think the most effective is always in-person, when applicable.
Ash Patel: Travis, what was the response from your couple hundred Instagram posts?
Travis Watts: Very interesting... First of all, I'm not a social media guy at all by background. I'm not a marketer or anything like that, so I made some pretty rookie mistakes early on. I wasn't using any hashtags, just was putting some generic multifamily data up and it wasn't very effective. You get 5 to 10 likes on something or whatever. And I've evolved over there with SEO and with hashtagging and with links and things like that.
What I found to be more effective is to try to relate your posts to your target audience. So it's not just putting, "Hey, I'm speaking at this conference", "Hey, I was on this podcast." "Hey, me, me, me. I, I, I." You've got to do away with that, and you've got to think about who is your target audience, what are they after, what kind of value are they looking for if they're going to be on that platform, which in my experience, more often than not, they're not on Instagram. But being personable, too. I've put up posts of my son and I, my wife and I, family and I, so trying to use a ratio of a little bit of business, but then a little bit of personal, so that you can relate to people and share stories and background, things like that.
Ash Patel: I love that. I want to dive into the mistakes that we've all made on social media, because some of the Best Ever listeners may not buy into the fact that they should be on social media to promote their business. So let's talk about the mistakes that we've made early on, and hopefully inspire the Best Ever listeners to do more on social media. Slocomb, let's start with you, man. Let's hear some of the big mistakes.
Slocomb Reed: Biggest mistakes, absolutely. I am guilty of not posting enough, so I don't know that I have many embarrassing posts... But my biggest mistake easily is responding to negative commenters. The times that I have used social media, anytime you put something out into the public, you're attracting attention from a wide variety of people. And I have learned the hard way to let negative comments happen, let them appear, let them float on downstream on their own.
I responded to negative commenters when... This is not directly commercial real estate investing, but as an agent, I was representing a developer of tiny homes in a neighborhood of Cincinnati called Over-The-Rhine, and that is a controversial idea for some people, for a variety of reasons.
When I posted on social media about it, I got some negative comments that I responded to, and it started a comment storm in which I was the troll trolling comments on my own post. And I realized that my response to comments wasn't adding any value anywhere. Just - those negative comments are coming; let them happen, let them float on downstream. They don't matter all that much. You're getting exposure.
Ash Patel: Great advice. You know, Slocomb, I had that, negative comments. And initially, I want to stalk this person online, find out what they're all about...
Slocomb Reed: Right? Totally. Which is nothing, they're almost always about nothing. But when you post publicly on social media, there are no credentials that are required to comment on what you're doing. So most of the time, these negative comments are coming from people with no credibility, no understanding of what it is that you're posting about.
Ash Patel: Yeah, I get it. Listen, I'm from Jersey. I still want to prepare an offensive and go after this person, but cooler heads prevail; you accomplish nothing, and it just makes you look bad. So you have to disengage when there's negative comments, and let the rest of the commenters deal with it. Let social media handle it. The social media universe typically irons those things out. Great. Thanks for sharing that. Travis, what about you, man? Mistakes that you've made early on.
Travis Watts: Yeah. Just to piggyback off what you two are saying, absolutely the truth. But the funny and ironic thing about it is I can't remember a time that I've received a negative comment from somebody who was actually successful. If you really look at it, you don't have millionaires and billionaires on there being, "You're a piece of crap. You don't know what you're talking about." It's always the bottom feeders. So something to keep in mind.
Another thing is if you ever get on YouTube or social media and you look at huge influencers, or you look at people that are actually doing great things, it doesn't really matter what they're posting; they could say, "Hey, just donated $1 million to charity." There will be negative comments. "Must be nice. Richie Rich for the rest of us. We can't do things like that." There's always going to be negativity on social media.
But a red flag or an indicator [unintelligible 00:08:46.17] back to target audiences, if you tend to be getting a lot of that, you're probably posting on a platform that may not be where your target audience is. Something to keep in mind. My reply is either, A) don't reply or B) it's "Thanks so much for taking the time to read the post. I appreciate you."
Ash Patel: Okay, you're passive-aggressive and you're going to poke.
Travis Watts: Yeah.
Ash Patel: I love it.
Travis Watts: Yeah, but no, it drives them nuts, so it's funny. Or, "Thanks so much. You're awesome." Just something generic like that. But anyway, so that's that. Now another mistake I've made early on is not posting quality or professionalism on your post. So just taking an iPhone picture, writing a post about it, whatever. It's just not the best post to have. I prefer to do more professional video that's been edited, better lighting, stuff like that. I just think that the amateur look of a post sometimes will turn a lot of people off, that "This person's new. They don't know what they're doing. They're not a real professional." At least in the eyes of accredited investors, which is my target audience. So that's what I've seen.
Ash Patel: That's a great point, because for some people, that may be okay, a shot on the fly. But for your audience, that's not the case. And the reason Travis has never had negative comments is because he's probably one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. So I want to focus on mistakes...
What mistakes do you currently see other people making? And I'll start with this one. Just bragging on social media accomplishes nothing. So when somebody's at the closing table, "Yup, just bought another one. Just sold another one." Or when somebody posts a picture of a check that they received at a closing - what does that say to your audience, man? Like, you're killing it, that's great. If you want to do that, find a way to add value to your audience.
Talk about a big mistake that you made; and I'm not talking a superficial "This was a really tough deal, and my team has struggled", blah, blah. Say, "Look, here's a really embarrassing mistake that I made. Luckily, we were able to recover," but put some value out there when you do that.
So I see a lot of that, man. The closing table, obligatory photo that gets posted... Not a big fan of those. Travis, let's go with you. What do you see that people are doing incorrectly these days?
Travis Watts: I think those are valid points. To trail off of that too, here's my philosophy on it. Generally, humans want you to be successful up to their level of success, not necessarily beyond. So to your point, when you see someone post something like, "Hey, just got my first job at McDonald's, making $10 an hour. I'm so psyched. I'm thrilled. I'm excited, I look forward to my future," that thing's going to get a million likes. But then when it's, "Hey, just launched my business. Made $1 million last year. Time to crush it this year, too." Ten likes. People aren't so into that, because they start self-reflecting. "Why can't I do that? Why didn't I do that?" And it comes off as bragging, and things like that. So that's certainly one.
The other thing in general, from a psychological standpoint, is remembering that everybody's in it for themselves. They're getting on these platforms often to find value for themselves, to try to get ahead. So the more you're talking about "me, me, me, I, I, I, look at me, look at me, look at my business. Look, look, look," no one really cares. Not until you say, "Hey, have you thought about if you did this, you might potentially have this outcome, and here's how that can help you in different ways. Just a thought. Not telling you what to do. Just sharing that that might add value to you." So I tried to take more of that approach on social. I think that's a big problem. To your point, basically what you said.
Ash Patel: I love it. That's incredible. Slocomb, what mistakes are you seeing people make these days?
Slocomb Reed: Yeah, a couple of things, Travis. The first point that you brought up, I've heard that called "the crabs in the bucket." If you catch a crab, you put it in a bucket, it'll climb out. But as soon as you have a second crab and one of them wants to climb out of the bucket, the other will stop it and pull it back in. People do the exact same thing. Like you said, "I got my first job at McDonald's", 1 million likes. "I bought my first McDonald's," 1 million dislikes.
I don't spend a whole lot of time on social media, but one of the things that I see that gets me just scrolling past is when people for the sake of creating content are regurgitating someone else's information and not adding anything themselves or adding any value. I don't do a lot to keep up with the news, I don't do a lot to keep up with real estate markets outside of my own. But I do enough to know that a lot of people I see on social media, they may not be copy-pasting what the Wall Street Journal has been reporting on for the last couple of days, but they're just sharing information that's already widely publicized. And the biggest issue is when they try to claim that some of the perspective that they are copy-pasting is their own. I'm not a major consumer of social media, but that's the first thing I scroll past and don't read.
Ash Patel: Yeah, great point. And Slocomb, something that I've used in the past, not often, is what's referred to as newsjacking, where you find a commercial real estate story and you give your spin on it. "Here's a great article, and my opinion of this is... Whatever." So if you are one of those people... And I also don't believe you have to post every other day or four times a day. I think you post when there's value that you can add. So newsjacking has been great if there's a legit story that I think people can benefit from and apply to the masses; put a spin on it. Something that's an easy read, not a 10-page essay.
I think I failed to talk about my mistakes that I've made in social media, so I'll come back to that. And I think the biggest mistake that I've made, and at times will continue to make, is when I talk about political things, or if I inject my opinion on hot topic news issues. I don't think I've done that in a very, very long time, but it happens from time to time, and I pay for it.
So, Travis, earlier you mentioned, you have a nice mix of professional and personal posts. Why do you do that?
Travis Watts: I think, at the end of the day, people can relate to commonality things. "Hey, here's my grandmother. She's 90 years old and I'm so grateful she's in my life." A lot of people can resonate with that kind of message. Less people resonate with "Ashcroft just did A, B, or C on this Georgia property in a value-add business plan." A lot of people, that just goes right over their heads. So there's that, and I think there's showing people that you're a real human. You're not this robot, you're not a transactional, fixed person. You're saying, "Hey, I value friends, family, and the same things you do." "I'm on vacation", "I'm grateful for this", "I'm happy about that", charitable things...
Just show people who you are, whoever you are; show people that element, to a point. If it becomes all personal, then it's like a Facebook. There's no real business purpose for it. But if you're all transactional, it can be a turnoff to people that's like, "Who is this person? What's their motive or objective? Are they trying to scam me?" So you want that balance between the two. That's my opinion.
Ash Patel: Yeah, great advice.
Break: [00:16:13] - [00:18:00]
Ash Patel: Slocomb, you're not a big poster. I'm going to give you a pass on this question if you want it, and I'm going to give you some advice.
Slocomb Reed: Oh, let's do it.
Ash Patel: You're going to take the pass. Okay. So here's my opinion - you have to put your personal stuff out there to some extent. A few years ago, and I'm talking 2019, I was giving a talk to a bunch of doctors, explaining to them how social media can help them, and I said, "You have to put pictures of you, your family out there, the personal side of you", and I got berated. "I would never put pictures of my kids out there. Somebody's going to stalk and kidnap them." Okay, calm down.
So when you put pictures of personal things or personal posts out there, I think you have to still keep them real. You can't just put a bunch of rosy pictures, perfect marriage, perfect kids, postcard-type pictures. Every so often, put something real out there. My wife posted something where my daughter got glasses for the first time, and man, the look in her eyes could kill. She was really upset, but it was funny.
There was a famous picture, Christmas card that went out. It was a Fortune 500 CEO. They went to take family pictures of their family for their Christmas cards, and the daughter was in the corner, pouting with her arms folded. They took the picture anyway, and that's the card that went out, and it was viral. And good for that person for showing the real side of things. I'm in my mid-40s, and I see a lot of people announcing on Facebook that they're getting divorced. And if you look at their last 50 posts, "Oh my god, the perfect marriage. How did this happen?"
So Slocomb, for you - you're a realtor, you're an investor, you raise capital... People are going to want to know who you are before they invest money with you, maybe before they sign you up as a realtor. So they're going to stalk you on social media. Instagram, Facebook, probably the most prevalent. They may hit you up on LinkedIn, but you don't really find out who somebody is on LinkedIn. It's more of a professional posting site. So if you post some real things about you, it almost builds a connection where your audience knows who Slocomb Reed is. So I encourage you to do more of that. Post struggles in your professional career, wins, post personal wins and triumphs and struggles, but put it out there. If you're uncomfortable doing it, just put out a really bad post and take all the suffering at once. Put a bad picture of you and get all the anxiety out of the way.
Slocomb Reed: Ash, I have a follow-up question... But first, the only thing I've ever done that was close to going viral... When COVID was announced as a pandemic in March of 2020 and we had the shelter-in-place order, I had a 10-month-old daughter at the time. And I printed up a little piece of paper, I put it in front of her, took a couple of pictures as she looked at the paper, and then picked it up and started eating it. The paper said "Daddy says you need to know about mortgage forbearance." And as a residential realtor and the person who's in real estate mentor within my spheres, I got a lot of chuckles out of that one at least.
The follow-up question for both of you is the three social media platforms where I hear and other real estate investors get a lot of value that I would be interested in using as well are Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. When it comes to what value you think you can add or could be gained by you on those platforms, and what forms of content do and don't work specific to Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn, what are your perspectives on that?
Ash Patel: I'll let Travis start with Instagram, because I don't really post much on there.
Travis Watts: Sure. My take on it is Instagram would be best for realtors, versus looking for accredited investors or trying to raise big capital. Facebook's better for personal posts, like we've been talking about. And LinkedIn is your most professional and sophisticated folks. Statistically, there's more $100,000+ incomes on there than any other platform in the world, so that's where I find the majority of accredited investors, is through LinkedIn. That's how I view those three.
Ash Patel: Yeah, I agree with Travis in that Instagram is more entertainment. You're not going there for value. Facebook is half and half; its value sometimes disguised as entertainment, or vice versa - entertainment disguised as value. From my perspective, Facebook has been the most beneficial platform. I've made the most connections on there, and it's both me reaching out to other people that I'm interested in, or people saying, "Hey, I see that you're in commercial. Let's connect. Let's talk about this." But more so over time, people know who you are based on your posts.
I can't tell you how many Facebook friends I feel like I know, and when I finally meet them, if I meet them all, when I do meet them, it's like, "Man, we're already connected," because we've been Facebook friends for years. We follow each other's posts... We have a connection online. So it helps bridge that gap when you do finally meet, or if you do have an ask of somebody.
If you've got years of Facebook interactions, it's a big help. LinkedIn - again, Travis mentioned; more professional. So when I need to reach out to a broker, I will find them on LinkedIn, message them there first. If they don't respond, I hit them on Facebook. If they don't respond, I'll hit their spouse on Facebook. I will get to them, one way or another. So that's my take on the three of them.
I want to ask - direct messaging. We all receive them on every platform, I would imagine. What do you see that people are doing incorrectly and correctly? And I think LinkedIn is the most prevalent, where you're constantly getting messages. So Slocomb, are you on LinkedIn much?
Slocomb Reed: I am, and I get a lot of those DMs. Two parts to this first answer. There are a lot of copy-paste DMs out there. I am guilty of copy-paste messaging in a lot of circumstances. If you're going to do that, if you have a message you want to get out to a lot of people, I'll tell you, first of all, put my name in the front of the message, so that I at least know you deleted the parenthesis, name, close parentheses, and put my name in there.
When you start with a really generic question like "Have you been struggling to find deals these days?", I immediately assume that's impersonal. You don't know anything about me. You just know that my LinkedIn says real estate and you're messaging that to 10,000 people. So the first thing I'd say is, if you're going to DM someone out of the blue, start with something personal. And if you are in a position where you need to send a copy-paste-style message to a lot of people, try to at least personalize the beginning of it, to at least fake me out into reading the rest of your message. Otherwise, it's getting skipped.
Ash Patel: Great advice. Travis?
Travis Watts: Yeah, great point. I think Instagram and LinkedIn are most notorious for virtual assistants and bots to send out mass messaging, like Slocomb said. So a) avoid the three to four-paragraph first messages. That's crazy and ridiculous, and everybody knows that's just a template. And yeah, there's a lot of those hooks. "Have you ever wondered how to make money from home?" Obviously, spam; so avoid that kind of stuff.
I'll give you guys one tip that's worked really well for me. Every message I send to somebody directly on LinkedIn is a) from me directly, b) I look at their actual profile, I try to pull one thing off of it that's not generic, and I try to put that in the message. "Hey, I see you grew up in Fort Collins, Colorado. I did as well. Just curious to hear more about your journey in real estate as I see you're a real estate investor, and I'd love to chat Colorado, if you still live there." Something like that, because you know that's not a bot and you know that's not a virtual assistant. So that's been a great tip to start a conversation.
Ash Patel: I love both of your guys' advice... And I agree, the VA thing - it's just impersonal. It's a fail in my book, and you've ruined a potential good connection that you could have made. I went through dozens of old messages on LinkedIn, and here's what I've found. Anything that's very long, with a Calendly link on it, done. You're not reading it. I love, Slocomb, when people start out with my name. And what's even better is what Travis mentioned. I've received a message from somebody that said, "Hey, I see you invest in triple net properties." Okay, they've read my profile, that's two wins. And a specific ask would be very good.
I've had a lot of messages saying, "If you want to connect, book a time with me". That tells me you just want to connect with everybody, and that doesn't add a high value to me. Give me a specific ask. Is there a deal that you're working on now, or tell me the last deal that you worked on; what was the deal size of your last deal? Something that I can easily respond to and it doesn't take a lot of time. So great pieces of advice.
Travis, I looked at some of the messages that I've sent, and one broker who's a rockstar in Cincinnati that I wanted to connect to, I said, "Hey, Terry, great to connect with you. I've worked with Mike Goldstein in the past." I saw that there were connections, they comment on each other's posts, so that helped me bridge the gap. So great advice. All of you guys that are doing LinkedIn messages incorrectly, if nothing else, please refine that a little bit, because we all get bombarded with these messages, and there's a right way to get people's attention.
Slocomb Reed: I have something quick to add here...
Ash Patel: Please do, yeah.
Slocomb Reed: A couple of things, actually. One social media-esque platform that we haven't mentioned yet is the BiggerPockets website, the forums, the DMs there. DMs on BiggerPockets were how I first started connecting with real estate investors. I joined BiggerPockets as a house-hacker before they had a specific forum or channel for new member welcome messages, so I just posted the most clickbaity thing I possibly could. BiggerPockets has a keyword search feature, so I used every keyword I could possibly think of. This was like 2015, maybe early 2016. And I named dropped everything I possibly could, and I asked the internet for its opinion, which always gets you a lot of comment traffic.
The question was "I just got approved for $100,000 HELOC. I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. If you got this HELOC, what would you do with it?" And then I named dropped a whole bunch of different investing strategies just to hit the keyword searches, and I got a boatload of comments. And then everyone who commented, I went to their profile. I checked them out and DM'd 20-30 people the first couple of days after that, because they were in Cincinnati and I wanted to connect. I had read their profile, I said something personal. Going out to coffee with some of those people is how I got connected with the Best Ever meet-up here locally in Cincinnati, which led to meeting Joe Fairless, and you guys. Long story short, it had a huge impact on my investing, in my career as a real estate agent using BiggerPockets and using DMs. So I guess I have a little bit more social media experience that I'm giving myself credit for if you include BiggerPockets.
Ash Patel: Yeah, incredibly valuable. In 2015, that's how Joe and I met. He reached out to me, asked if I'd be a guest on his podcast. So DMs on BiggerPockets, and BiggerPockets in general - an amazing platform. The lowest hanging fruit to connect with other real estate people, because you already have that commonality. Gentlemen, I'm going to wrap it up. I'm going to share a quick story from my Best Ever listeners, and that is 2015, I thought that the market was getting overheated, and you may have heard this story before. Forgive me if you did.
I thought the market was getting overheated and I made a bunch of excuses. I said, "There's too much coastal money coming into the Midwest. I'm going to wait until the market cools off a little bit. I'm going to start buying again." And it turns out I was hiding behind a bunch of excuses because it was getting harder to find deals. 2010, 2011, 2012, anything you shot at was a great deal. When the market got harder, I started making excuses, and what I realized was I looked at people like Slocomb and Eric Cotner and other people out there that were still growing their teams, and they were still killing it. And here I am sitting back. And I thought what are they doing differently than I'm not, and it occurred to me, they're putting themselves out there and they're hustling when they're doing that.
So I started posting on social media, because prior to that, people still thought I was in IT. We would literally go out to dinner with people we haven't seen in a while, and they would say, "Ash, how's IT career?" I got so tired of correcting people, I would just say, "Things are good, man. Everything's well." And shame on me. I had been in real estate for five years at the time, and I didn't make it a point to put myself out there.
And Best Ever listeners, amazingly, I started putting myself on social media. I offered to mentor people. Just me getting out there networking with people, doing lunches, the deal flow just started coming in and it never stopped. So really put yourself out there. If you're uncomfortable, if you're anxious about doing it, put a really bad post out there and get it all out of the way. Take all the brunt of it at once, and then you can only go up from there. So gentlemen, any closing thoughts?
Travis Watts: Great advice, Ash. Story brand. Look at your story, look at your past experience. Form that into a relatable story that other people can resonate with and go share it. That's really what it comes down to for me.
Ash Patel: Slocomb.
Slocomb Reed: Regardless whether this is about social media or pretty much any other topic, my primary advice ends up being focused on adding value to others and make personal connections. That absolutely is the case with social media. Make sure that you're generating content for the sake of adding value to the people who consume it, and when you want to connect with people, keep it personal and make sure you're putting yourself in a position to add value to them.
Ash Patel: Awesome. And Best Ever listeners, we're going to hold Slocomb his feet to the fire and we're going to make sure he posts a lot more, so get after him if you see him online. Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five-star review. Share this episode with somebody you think can benefit from it. And as always, please like, subscribe, and have a Best Ever day.
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