Aaron Katz, owner of Aaron Katz Apartment Investing, joins Slocomb Reed on the Best Ever Show. In this episode, Aaron discusses what’s happening in the Dallas, Texas, multifamily market. He also discusses being a solo GP in a co-GP world, being a “slow-and-steady” deal sponsor, and why 2024 is a good time to buy multifamily.
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Transcript
Slocomb Reed (02:22.161)
Best ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed. And today we are joined by Aaron Katz. Aaron is joining us from Dallas, Texas. His company is Aaron Katz apartment investing. He's a multifamily investor with over a decade in the industry. He currently has five GP positions and nine LP positions in multifamily properties.
Aaron, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you're currently focused on?
Aaron Katz (02:53.218)
Sure, yeah, Slocomb, thanks for having me on today. Great to meet you and be on the Best Ever podcast. I'm currently focused on mainly B and C class here in multifamily, I think there's a lot of opportunity. I've been in the multifamily space here in the Dallas, Fort Worth area since 2011. I did my first syndication deal back in 2012. As you mentioned, I have five current GP deals, nine deals that have gone full cycle with a hundred percent plus average total return to investors never lost as much as one penny of investors money over the years and currently as you said nine LP positions But I've also had nine of my LP deals go full cycle just like I've had nine GP deals go full cycle so a lot of full cycle deals over the years and I'm bringing that experience and successful track record and producing returns to investors and looking to take advantage of a lot of the opportunity that's here again in 2024.
Obviously we've dealt with some headwinds here the last couple of years here in the industry, myself and my partners on my current projects of exercise great care and diligence to look after our investors and to navigate through. And I think we're doing that fairly well during some other things that I've seen and heard in the industry, and now there's a lot of opportunity here. So positioning myself here in the marketplace to allow myself and my investors to take advantage of the opportunity that's here, some of these great discounts we're seeing, and ride what I think is gonna be a next great wave here in multifamily up over the next five to seven years.
Slocomb Reed (04:57.005)
Aaron, there are a couple of things I want to ask you about. The Dallas, Fort Worth market in general. That's where all of your investing has been since 2012.
Aaron Katz (05:06.967)
You know, uh, every deal on the GP side, except one in Houston has been right here in DFW. That's where all of my relationships are with brokers and vendors and, and people in the industry, et cetera. So I'm pretty plugged in out here.
Slocomb Reed (05:33.049)
Yeah, so both things I want to talk about are fairly well related. I really want to ask what's happening in Dallas, but Dallas has been pegged as one of those markets right now where you have the, the highest, uh, numbers of new supply, uh, in apartments that, that any Metro has experienced ever. Um, it's, it's like a lot of those Southwest markets are just seeing huge numbers of apartments coming online, uh, this year into next year, uh, combined there are some guests on the podcast who reference that in combination with interest rates still being high and the amount of bridge debt that was taken on two, three, four years ago coming to a head and there being some serious volatility in the multifamily space in Dallas.
So there are a lot of those same people are saying, yes, a lot of inventory is going to hit the market in the next couple of years, but then you will see that new construction of apartments fell off a cliff after that. And there's going to be a while. The demand for apartments will continue to increase as people move to places like Dallas and Fort Worth. We're going to see a spike in a new supply, possibly a spike in distressed sellers right now.
But then you have serious tailwinds after that for the next five to seven years. So, um, I'm a, I'm a Cincinnati investor. Uh, I don't personally trade anywhere in, in Texas or anywhere outside of the greater Cincinnati area. So, uh, I'm not the one who should be summarizing what's happening in Dallas, Fort Worth right now. That's you, but hopefully, um, you, please tell our listeners where I'm wrong and use this as a springboard and tell us what's actually happening.
Aaron Katz (07:34.63)
No, you really summarized it really well, Slocum. Definitely some headwinds to deal with. Like you said, a lot of completions coming online here in Dallas. But as you also said, starts are down and we're anticipating here in a couple of years that there'll be no new supply really coming on, which is obviously gonna drive demand in existing multifamily. And we have the opportunity here now to pick up these properties at a great basis.
And when we're underwriting these properties, I mean, we know that we're facing some of these challenges over the next couple of years, but we're not underwriting these projects on a two-year life cycle either. We know that we're gonna hold these deals potentially five to seven years. And that's kind of maybe why I threw out that number before. So everything that you said in your summary, was pretty much dead on with my philosophy and why I'm pretty bullish about Dallas. All of the fundamentals are strong. People are going to continue to move here. Economic growth, job growth, Dallas is going to be a top top multifamily market with a lot of demand.
And we just got to get through some of the headwinds here that we're facing. But the opportunity is here right now to buy and pick up these deals at a great basis that we're not going to see later when the completions are down and not coming online. We see that opportunity right now. So we need to be forward thinking to take advantage of it. And that's kind of how I'm looking at it.
Slocomb Reed (09:10.229)
Aaron, within your general partnerships, what do you focus on? What do you specialize in?
Aaron Katz (09:16.786)
Myself? Well, yeah, great question. Well, when I came into the industry and did my first syndication deal from 2012 to really until the end of 2017, every single deal that I did, Slocomb, I was the sole GP on the deal. You don't see that so much anymore. But we were buying deals at a much lower basis. And we didn't have to raise as much capital because we were picking the deals up at a lower basis.
Like my first deal was a 90 unit deal. It's a C class deal here in Arlington, Texas. And I bought it for 19,000 door back in 2012. That same deal would be trading around $100,000 a door now. So I was able to raised $750,000 from 12 investors and come in and acquire that deal. But I wore all of the hats and I did that on a lot of my early projects. Um, and then I saw the advantage in taking on partners that could come in and bring in complimentary skill sets. Maybe they were better at me in an area that wasn't my strongest suit and I could then focus on my strengths, or they were willing to do something that I really wasn't wanting to do anymore after five years in the business.
So over the last couple of years, I had kind of stepped back after 2021. You've probably seen based on the number of deals I've done, I like to call myself a slow and steady deal sponsor. When I came into the business, I saw it as this can be a lifetime business. I saw guys that were, and I heard about that were 70 years old and just slowly over the years they'd amassed a really strong portfolio, riding the ebbs and flows of the apartment business, but just kind of sticking and being focused on the apartment business, knowing that apartments are always going to be in demand. And I kind of modeled myself after one of those guys. I was never somebody that came in and said, you know, I want to do 3000 deep, you know, doors by next year. That wasn't my model. My model has always been to do a deal or two a year, um, partner with the right people on the front end.
And I haven't, uh, I haven't had partnerships go bad like I've seen and heard about in this industry. I like to think that most of my partnerships have done really well because I take a lot of due diligence on the front end. I do it on my projects, but I do it on the partnerships that I'm going to get involved in and on the people and making sure that they're skilled in the areas that they're going to be focusing on.
So long-winded answer to your question, but for many years I wore all the hats and then come in and turn some of the asset management over to some other partners that maybe were stronger at it or just love doing it. And I was going to focus on formulating the vision and the business plan for the property on the front end, assisting in marketing the project and raising capital and looking to form more partnerships. And then obviously always being there in a consulting role where I could bring my experience to any situation that might arise to, you know, help the particular project be as successful as possible.
And I was, I was a lead guy on the front. And then when everything kind of started going to bridge financing being really the only way that we could do deals and play in the market, just a few years ago, you know, I'd always been you know, stay away from Bridge. But then Bridge became the only way you could obviously play in the game or you were just gonna sit on the sidelines and not buy multifamily for a couple of years. So I did do a few deals.
Slocomb Reed (13:05.393)
Because people who were getting bridged that were able to pay more, meaning that you are stuck. Yeah.
Aaron Katz (13:10.054)
Right. Exactly. People getting bridge debt were able to pay more. And if you weren't doing bridge debt, then you couldn't pay enough to win a deal here in DFW. So I did a couple of deals over the last few years, but I kind of sat back while a lot of that was going on. And given some of what I'm seeing, I'm kind of glad I'm dead. I was in a position that I could do that.
And the deals that we bought, they had to, you know, we had to have the opportunity to maybe pick it up at a low basis, or it had a certain story that appealed to me, rather than kind of what I saw, which was bridged debt and everybody kind of paying at the top of the market, and 15 different factors having to fall right for the deal to work. And you know, so with that being said, you know, here we are in 2024, we had a market reset, and we needed to have a market reset.
When a market reset happens, people don't always like the way that it happens. But, you know, when, especially here in DFW, you know, we got 3040 offers on a deal. And like I said, everybody's paying at the absolute top of the market, we needed to have a reset. So that resets happened. Now we have the opportunity to, you know, pick up properties at a great as we said five to seven years down the line. Hopefully we're here looking at some interest rates coming you know pretty soon and that's kind of I think where we are. So with that being said I think the challenge right now is I've built a large database, Slocomb of investors.
Most of my investors are people I've just met at real estate events, like the Best Ever Conference that I'm gonna be coming out to in Salt Lake City in April and just followed up with after and built a relationship with. So I've built a pretty strong database of about 1300 real estate investors that are people I just met generally face to face going back to coming into the industry in 2011 and got to know. And over the years, I've had a lot of repeat investors that like my approach and the results that I've been able to produce for them. And they kind of see the way that I operate. I'm a real transparent guy, pretty much where who I am and what I am on my sleeve. If people friend me on Facebook or follow me, because I've created a profile now where people can follow me, I share a lot of general multifamily information as well as just lifestyle and really letting people know who it is that I am, because I believe that people invest with people that they know, like, and trust.
So I want people to feel like they know me. If they visit my website, my brand new website, Aaron Katz apartment investing.com. I've put up a lot of passive investor testimonials from people, many repeat and many who've invested with me going back over 10 years. And they talk about their actual experience investing with me over the years. They'll also see featured properties, some different blogs that I've put up, the opportunity to download a free report on the top seven reasons why multifamily is a solid investment. So I've tried to make it a real informative website. Why 2024 is a great time to invest. And most importantly, they can they can join my Aaron Katz apartment investor community there. We're all follow up with them. And then in the future, I'll have the opportunity to offer them a potential passive investor opportunities.
Slocomb Reed (16:53.557)
I am not investing in Dallas, but I am a host of a daily real estate investing podcast with a lot of guests who invest in Dallas. And what I've been hearing is that there are significant headwinds to investing in Dallas right now. Interest rates are still too high. You've got a lot of new supply coming on the market. In some parts of the metro area, rents are decreasing in a way that we're not seeing in the Midwest. So I can't personally relate.
I don't have the level of detailed information I would need to validate this information personally, but increase, uh, expenses, increasing revenue in some places, decreasing costs of debt, still being high, a lot of new supply coming on the market right now. You're, I may get your words wrong here, Aaron, but you said that 2024 is a good time to be buying at a low basis.
What are the variables that are leading that are leading you to say that now is a good opportunity to buy?
Aaron Katz (18:14.998)
Well, the fact that we're able to pick up deals now 30 to 40% below what we would have been able to pick them up at back in say, the spring of 2022 before we had this big interest rate run up. And I think down the road, we're going to see prices come back up to to those levels again and then possibly in the future, which is why I say when we're looking at these deals, we're looking and projecting them on a long term plan. With that being said, as I said, Slocum, I look at buying one to two deals a year.
And a lot of the deals here in DFW that I'm going to be looking at with partners and you're right now There's still a bit of a discrepancy between what we can make sense of as buyers It by and large not to say there's not exceptions and what sellers are willing to accept But that bridge seems to be closing and that's why I'm positioning myself to get really active again Very soon here in DFW, but a lot of deals in DFW. It's a deal-by-deal basis they may not make sense for some of the very same reasons.
And if that's the case, then I don't feel pressured to move forward on anything. I'm not going to do that and put what I've built over the last 12 years at risk, nor would I ever do that to investors. I'm putting my own money into these deals as well. So, you know, I'm gonna find deals that make sense here in DFW, where certainly conservative underwriting is going to pencil them out. You know, I don't have to have deal in DFW look good and make sense. I just have to have the one to two that myself and my partners are going to choose to move forward on having a story or being substantiated by data that makes sense to us, that we're going to be able to move forward, have a vision that we truly believe in and believe is realistic and achievable.
And we've put pen to paper and it makes sense. And then we go ahead and we move forward and execute our plan. You know, we're being very realistic with the latest deal that I did. And I haven't been a lead partner that was kind of tying back to one of your questions. Over the last couple of years, I took kind of mainly a general consulting role in some of the partnerships that I did. And I let other people kind of be the lead people on the deal and come. But I've decided in 2024 to kind of resume a role that I played in my transactions from 2012, pretty much through 2021.
And that was getting back to being on the front lines with the brokers and looking at potential projects. So I'm going to be much more of a front line guy again here in Dallas. I would run into broker friends. I was in buyer brokerage for a couple of years when I first came into the business. Prominent mentoring organization offered me the opportunity to come on and work in buyer brokerage with them. So I took that. I already had a couple of syndication deals at that time, a 90 unit and a 160 unit deal in Irving, Texas. But I thought that it was gonna be a great opportunity that was gonna help me put my feet on more deals and look at more deals, but mainly get to know the movers and shakers here in the DFW broker industry.
So did that for a couple of years and helped students in that mentoring program by multifamily projects and that was a great learning experience for me until it became more of a job and a time consuming position than I was looking for because I really wanted to put the focus on being a GP as I'd done on two deals at that time. So I stepped away from that role at that time and moved back to being a full time GP which is what I've been doing since 2015 solely. And I have a lawn guy here that just decided to come in.
Slocomb Reed (22:47.269)
With the deals that you are interested in currently, the basis being significantly lower, sellers selling out of some distress, 30% down from the peak experience back in 2021.
Are these, um, are these deals that are going to see positive cashflow in year one or year two, or are you buying purely for where you expect them to be in years five and seven and you're, you're expecting a pretty bumpy road until you get there.
Aaron Katz (23:21.552)
When you say cash flow, you mean distributing to investors or you just mean positive cash flow?
Slocomb Reed (23:29.081)
If you could answer both, that would be great. Global cash flow is a very different thing from distributions to investors. The distributions to investors depend a lot on the deal structure and less on the performance of the market necessarily, or performance of the property.
Aaron Katz (23:42.114)
Yeah, well, you know, the current deal that I just closed with some partners that I've that I've taken a consulting role on, it was 195 unit, two property portfolio here in Bedford and Ulysses, which is in the DFW mid cities between Dallas, Fort Worth. On that particular project, we're projecting positive cash flow, but we've also told our investors not to expect any distributions until year two the deal still has a strong, positive or strong return number over a five-year average at about 5.7%.
But this is a big heavy value add play and We're not expecting any distributions to go out to investors So whatever that that's that particular deal, but whatever works for a particular deal it's going to be all about the success of the totality of the deal and I'm very transparent when I have a project in terms of communicating all of this to investors and if it fits their model Great and if it doesn't fit their model if they're looking for a deal that yield out of the gate, then a project like the one I just explained to you is not going to be something that's going to be up their alley.
But this is a deal that on a five-year total return projection, we feel that we've been pretty conservative, and I think we have an opportunity to potentially greatly over-deliver. And we outlined all of that to our investors, how that might happen. But our conservative numbers still produced over 100% total return over the last year a five-year period. And obviously, always our goal for deals to cash flow at their projections.
Aaron Katz (25:30.166)
With that being said, as we've certainly seen over the last few years, we never know what could come along. That, I mean, there's things obviously that happened over the last few years that none of us would have seen coming before. So I think the key is just to be thoughtfully responsive as a deal sponsor. You control what it is that you can control to the best of your ability.
And then when there's things that happen that are outside of your control, environmental, I think the key is as a partnership responsive to those things and then make the best choices that you can at that time with the information that you have at hand. For me, if somebody is coming into a deal, I'm going to be able to make a decision. I'm going to be able to make a decision.
I've had pretty strong cash flow performance over the years. People can go see that at the Aaron Katz, apar website on some of the featured properties on there. But I still always tell people, look, if you're looking to invest for cash flow that you have any plans of living off of, I probably don't recommend this being a vehicle for you if you need that cash flow to live off of. And my main concern is always the totality of these projects as a whole that they're going to be able to hit or exceed that total return that we put out to investors. And obviously we'll do everything we can to hit our projected cash flow during our ownership period as best we can in the way that I've just described.
Slocomb Reed (27:01.921)
Aaron, we're coming towards the end of our time for this interview. You're planning to attend the best of our conference this year for the first time, is that what you were saying?
Aaron Katz (27:13.534)
Yeah. In fact, Slocum, um, I had spoken with people on the best ever team back in 21 or 22 about coming on this podcast. And for whatever reason, it didn't happen. So in 2024, one thing I'm really trying to do is get on more stages, whether it's a physical stage or virtual stages, like podcasts can be great. And, um, I've heard a lot of great things about the best ever conference. Some people have told me it's quote unquote, literally the best ever multifamily conference that they've ever been to. So I really wanted to get out and attend it this year.
So when I decided to do that, I recalled that I'd had some communications with people on the best ever team about coming on the podcast. So we're in mid March now. I'm hoping that this will air before I'm out there in Salt Lake City. So people will have the opportunity to watch it and then connect with me out there. But yeah, I'm coming and I'm, I'm super excited because as I've heard pretty amazing things about the event from a lot of people whose opinions I value over the years.
Slocomb Reed (28:15.185)
Yeah, it'll be good to meet you there in person. The projection is around a thousand attendees. So yeah, I'm sure we'll be able to pick each other out of that crowd over the course of a few days, but yeah, it'll be nice to meet you. Shameless plug time for those listeners who don't have their tickets yet, but are interested in going. The website is best link in the show notes as well. It's April 9th to the 12th in Salt Lake City.
And there is a discount code for our listeners who don't have their tickets yet. It is connect all caps, C-O-N-N-E-C-T for 15% off of your tickets if you still haven't purchased them yet. One of the things I really like about the conferences, I tend to keep my head down and focus on my own business. And my own business is exclusively in the Cincinnati metro area.
And so as things have changed, as the mood of the conference has changed, as, as our position in the market cycle has changed, it's been really interesting to hear how, uh, operators in different markets are handling those changes differently based on what's happening in their backyards. You know, last year, uh, all of my Midwestern operator buddies just feeling weren't yet weren't sensing the fear or feeling the concern that a lot of investors in other parts of the country were because their cap rates were high enough that we were covering our debt with cash flows. We weren't having those kinds of issues. Midwesterners tend to be boring and not go for things like bridge debt anyways, but also with cap rates as high as ours, bridge debt wasn't necessary in order to have positive cash flows.
Uh, so it's an interesting opportunity to hear more about, um, markets that aren't mine, like Dallas, um, very interesting things happening. I know in Arizona, interesting. I can say that because I get to sit on the sidelines and, and when there's, uh, if there's carnage somewhere, I'm just, I'm just a spectator, uh, being in Cincinnati, but yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to meeting you there as well. Aaron, are you ready for the best over lightning round?
Aaron Katz (30:39.012)
Okay, all right, let's do it.
Slocomb Reed (30:41.009)
What is the best ever book you recently read?
Aaron Katz (30:46.654)
Okay, well, I'm rereading right now. I love the New Thought era books from the early 20th century. Some of the classics, probably the most well-known might be Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich, but a shorter one that I think really takes those ideas, but kind of brings them down into a smaller amount of pages would be Wallis D. Waddle's The Science of Getting Rich.
Slocomb Reed (31:23.661)
I'm typing that in my nose right now because I'm going to make sure I get a chance to go look it up. What is your best-ever way to give back?
Aaron Katz (31:32.022)
Well, I've done a free meetup event, Slocum, here in Dallas, Fort Worth. It's just the Aaron Katz apartment investing meetup. And I've been hosting meetup events here since 2015. I've grown the Aaron Katz apartment investing meetup here to be one of DFW's biggest and best apartment investing meetup. We bring in great special guests. We provide free lunch for all attendees and just create a terrific amazing networking with a lot of people.
They're usually extremely well attended events and maybe best of all they're completely free to attendees. It's just a space for people to come together. I tend to do about five to six of these a year and I think it's a great space I've created where I give back to an industry that's been very good to me and to my family.
And to my investors that trust me as a steward of their hard earned money going back to 2011. So that's a way that I give back in the apartment investing space.
Slocomb Reed (32:49.253)
Aaron, on deals that you've done, let's focus on your general, your GP positions, properties that you have acquired. What is the biggest mistake you've made and the best ever lesson that resulted from it?
Aaron Katz (33:05.194)
Yeah, that's a good question. I purchased a deal in 2016. It was here in East Fort Worth, just west of the Arlington, Texas city limits, right where East Fort Worth meets Arlington, where the Cowboys play and all that good stuff over there in Arlington. And it was an area where
We were sold that this area was going to be gentrifying. We were gonna be able to bring in a higher class of resident. I knew a lot of owners that came in. We all put money into these properties because we were expecting this gentrification to take place. And it really didn't. And it just ended up being a property that was a slog and a struggle for a three-year period. And I was hearing from a lot of other people that I knew that also bought properties particular sub market that they were just continuing to run into the same struggles, just turning over the same class of resident, we could never bring in that higher class of resident.
So I think the lesson and I was able to eventually exit that deal, and it was my least successful full cycle deal, but we still were able to get about a 25% return or about an 8% average annualized return over that three year period to my investors in that deal. Nobody lost any money.
Don't base gentrification being a requirement or turning a property over or a sub market turning over and becoming something it currently isn't for the deal to be successful. If the deal makes sense and that's something that can maybe happen that's going to be gravy on top, but the deal still makes sense with the tenant base as it is and just maybe seeing what's already taking place in that existing sub market. I like to look at multifamily more as a science on the block to come and improve anything out.
I wanna see that other comparable properties are already achieving something, and that if I come in and do what they've done, then I'm gonna also be able to achieve what they achieve, but there's a scientific barometer for that, rather than just thinking, okay, this area, this sub-market's going to gentrify, or it's going to get better, but we're not currently seeing evidence of that. So I'll never buy a property like that again. So that's a lesson, one lesson that, you know, out that I was able to learn that, you know, able to exit, nobody got hurt, but it was three years of, you know, a slog and a struggle working with a management company to even get to the point where we could return that 25% average, you know, total return to my investors in that project.
Slocomb Reed (35:53.904)
That's a great story for sharing my own valuable lesson on that note Aaron what is your best ever advice?
Aaron Katz (36:01.726)
My best ever advice, wow, that's pretty powerful. I don't know that I was necessarily ready for that particular question.
Be a student, I think, in everything in life. Always be teachable, always be willing to learn. Coming to the Best Ever Conference, I'm looking forward to hearing a great lineup of speakers. And even though I have been in this industry for 12 years, Slocomb. I may be one of the more experienced in terms of duration of time sponsors in the room, but I'm not just gonna be out talking to other GPs or investors in the hallway.
I'm gonna be sitting there learning from some of the great speakers that Joe and his team are bringing in, because I know that there's gonna be information there that's gonna help me. So always be a student. I'm a student in every area of life. I'm always looking to grow in terms of health, in terms of relationships, in terms of making changes to my lifestyle so that I can be at my peak as a human being, which obviously is gonna inform my professional area of my life as a deal sponsor of apartment investing projects.
So just really always be looking to grow and always be looking to learn. I'm a voracious reader. Um, I love talking to people. Uh, what we're doing here is some of my, my favorite stuff, just exchanging ideas. And, uh, I just encourage people to do that, you know, to come into the, and to never really come into this business from a place of ego. I see a lot of that in this industry. There's a lot of ego in the apartment investing syndication business, and that's never really been what I'm about. And it's not now.
So just always, I think, stay humble. And obviously, if you don't stay humble, then like some of the challenges we've had over the last couple of years, if people weren't humble, then I think a lot of people have been humbled. So it's my goal to never get to a position where I need to be humble, and I think that I do that.
Slocomb Reed (38:14.821)
Last question, where can people get in touch with you?
Aaron Katz (38:17.955)
Sure, well great. Well, you know, first of all, at the best ever conference, I'd love for people just to approach me that see this.
I'm building a great boots on the ground team here to take down the right deals in the DFW market. So if anybody is interested in discussing a potential GP position with somebody that's boots on the ground with a lot of experience here in the DFW market that feels that they can bring something of great value on the GP side to myself and to my partners that I'm going to be looking to take down deals with here again in this market, in this environment, then definitely approach and speak to me.
Obviously, always looking to meet potential passive investors. So if anybody's interested in just meeting and approaching me in that way, really anybody just approach me at the best ever conference. And I look forward to meeting a lot of people. But online right now, the place they can find me is Aaron Katz, apartment investing dot com. It's a new website that I launched late last year. I think I built it out to be pretty robust. I've mentioned some of the things that are there people can jump around on and get some great information.
They can also join my investor community where I'll personally follow up with them after and get to know them a little bit and then hopefully be able to offer them potential investing opportunities with me as we take advantage of some of this opportunity that's here and coming in 2024.
Slocomb Reed (39:52.161)
Excellent and that link again is in the show notes and best ever listeners I hope I get to meet you at the conference as well Aaron. Thank you best ever listeners Thank you as well for tuning in if you've gained value from this episode Please do subscribe to our show leave us a five-star review and share this episode with a friend You know, we can add value to through our conversation today. Thank you and have a best ever day.