Jeremy Kuchenbecker, an active investor and LP in over 27 investments, joins Joe Cornwell on the Best Ever Show. In this episode, Jeremy discusses his path to financial freedom via real estate, including his first deal, scaling his investment portfolio, and avoiding lifestyle creep. Her also discusses investing in alternative assets like car washes, oil and gas, and ATMs and what LPs should look for in investments.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker | Real Estate Background
- VP of APCO Holdings
- Based in: Orlando, Florida
- Say hi to him at:
- Best Ever Book: Fooled by Randomness
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Transcript
Joe Cornwell (00:00.95)
Best ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm your host, Joe Cornwell, and today I'm joined by Jeremy Kuchenbecker. Hopefully I pronounced that right. Jeremy is the APCO Holdings, VP of Enterprise Digital Strategy. He has an automotive third party administrative insurance company. He's gonna explain that to us. He's also an LP investor in over 27 investments, and he's done some active investing as well.
And Jeremy is going to tell us his story today about how he reached financial freedom at an early age, and I'm excited to hear it. So Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (00:38.93)
I appreciate Joe and you yeah you I gotta give you give you credit cuz you know my know my last name So that's all pass off to you, but yeah
Joe Cornwell (00:45.694)
Good. Yeah, that was a tough one. I was sounding it out as I went, but I'm glad I appreciate that. So yeah, let's get into your backstory a little bit. Tell me about your early life background. Where'd you grow up? And then how did you get into your kind of financial freedom journey?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (01:03.106)
Yeah, so again, appreciate you having me on, long time listener. So, you know, kind of a little bit of an interesting background, but, you know, born and raised in Orlando, Florida, you know, I tried to get out, you know, quite a few times, but just kept, you know, kept kind of coming back, work in school and everything kept me here. But, you know, growing up, I graduated from UCF and I was really looking at ways to, you know, make as much money as I could immediately out of school.
And very long story short, I kind of fell backwards into the retail car business and realized very quickly that, you know, I enjoyed making good money from a young age. But at a certain point, you know, I didn't want to trade, continue to trade my time for money. And, you know, I looked at different careers and the corporate ladder and the ladder I was looking at within the selling cars and it was like, hey, I got to find another path.
So, I'm sure we can kind of dive a little bit more into this. I tried some, I tried drop shipping, some e-commerce sites. I looked at starting an ATM business on my own and eventually, I landed on real estate really as the best way at that point, in 2014, 2015 to trade my time for money. And that, I can obviously dive a lot deeper into that, but that's really what led me to real estate, buy my own deals and eventually kind of looking at diversifying through a lot of LP investments as well.
Joe Cornwell (02:34.198)
Okay, and so you said this about 10 years ago, out of college, what did you go to school for?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (02:40.682)
Initially finance, but I graduated with a degree in marketing.
Joe Cornwell (02:44.182)
Marketing, okay. All right, and so you had tried a couple different businesses or entrepreneurship roles and then you ended up going into joining a business, right? So you had a W-2 job at what year was that?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (02:55.622)
Yeah, it was 2000, I graduated 2012, so, you know, and I've still got a W-2, um, now kind of in a similar, similar industry, but graduated 2012 and went straight, straight into W-2.
Joe Cornwell (03:05.278)
Okay, so how long were you at that first job out of college?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (03:09.766)
Yeah, I was 20, I was 23. Probably just, you know, 20, just turned 23. Um, and when I got that first job.
Joe Cornwell (03:18.294)
And then how long were you there? And then at what point did you start looking into real estate?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (03:22.858)
Yeah, so I was there, probably with that same company, I moved into a finance position. I was with that same company. I started investing when I was 25, so I was there for about two years, two and a half years before I bought my first single family home.
Joe Cornwell (03:36.898)
Okay, all right. And so what led you down the path of real estate?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (03:42.67)
Yeah, I kind of touched on a little bit earlier, but I mean, I was working 60 hours a week and was making good money for being 25 at that time. And I looked at just trading the trade off of my time and really freedom and flexibility for money and looked at a couple different options, all of which with me working at the time, still needing that income didn't really allow me to do both.
The e-com drop shipping, ATM business, a couple others, it didn't allow me to really make that trade-off. I still had to run a business and deal with customers with both of those. So looking at real estate, I looked at it kind of in two ways. One, to somewhat oversimplify, it's not entirely passive once you buy the deal, once you buy a property.
But once I bought that property, had property management in place, took a very kind of cookie cutter approach. But once I bought that property, I could manage that asset fairly easily. I bought them in Orlando, where I live. I could manage those fairly easily. And it was, I think, for me, that as well as the compounding over time, not wanting to get hooked on that kind of immediate gratification of a flip, but buying and holding them, burring, buy, rent, re-advert finance, over a long enough time horizon, that started to make sense for me. And you looked at the compounding from when I started, when I was 25, and you kind of rinse and repeat that strategy over time, and looking back, I'm happy I did it.
Joe Cornwell (05:20.574)
Yeah, no, and as I mentioned in the opening, I had a very similar path. I relate to that extremely well. So before you got into that first deal, what was the background? What was the educational piece? Did you just buy the first house you saw? Like how was that process that led you to closing on your first rental?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (05:41.858)
Yeah, great, great question. So I was, you know, I was listening to the best ever podcast every day into work, you guys, bigger pockets, a couple others. But I was, I mean, I was obsessed, like, again, I was working 60 hours a week, but the 30 minute drive into into, you know, into the office, a 30 minute drive home, nights, weekends, I spent six to seven, eight months consuming as much content as I could. I was on forums nonstop.
And I was, I was on the, the apps, you know, realtor and Zillow, uh, nonstop looking at properties, what's going to make a good rental, what's not. I knew Orlando pretty, pretty well again, born and raised here. And it, the first property I bought was actually, uh, and there, there was a kind of a few pieces to it, but it was a, somebody was trying to flip it and it got left on market for a little while.
I ended up buying it for about $79,000. It looked like a pretty cookie cutter home. I put about $5,000, $6,000 into it. And I knew it was going to rent based on comps for $1,100 at that time. And I was like, this for me feels safe enough. It's going to be a good kind of property to get into. And my kind of litmus test was, hey, I'm buying this. I don't get it with reasonable as much certainty as you can have. I don't think I'm gonna lose money on this. I don't necessarily think I'm gonna make a home run, but I don't think I'm gonna lose money. That's gonna be a safe one to get my feet wet and then it kind of get the momentum.
Joe Cornwell (07:19.17)
Yeah, just out of curiosity. So you said you bought this about 10 years ago and what was your purchase price then? And then what do you think it'd be worth today? I know you said you sold some of those, but just curiosity.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (07:29.358)
Yeah, what would be worth today? So I did I sold it about two and a half years after I bought it. I had refied and pulled my money out during that time period. You know, today I paid 79 for it and if 15 doesn't 15. Today is probably worth around 200 to 20 to 25. But I guess
Joe Cornwell (07:48.814)
So double to triple the value over, let's call it nine, 10 years. And the reason why I like asking those type of questions is because I think so many people, especially new investors, don't understand just how powerful real estate is over time. And as you mentioned, there's a lot of people out there writing books or on social media trying to sell people in the dream of this get rich quick scheme. But I think traditional real estate investing is definitely the get wealthy slow.
And that's a prime example of looking at just what one house could have done for you financially over time. So, you said you sold it a few years in and I know you had started acquiring some other rentals. So, how did that journey go from the first one to your last active deal?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (08:33.326)
Yeah, so my last act of so over a period of probably four to five years up until, you know, just before the pandemic and late 2019. I had bought that single family. I got into another duplex that I actually split with my dad. Both of those kind of on the journey up. I ended up refining that single family home and then I sold it.
And then the duplex I split with my dad, we did a refi to kind of get me out of it. Just we had different investing kind of trajectories. And from there, I bought two more townhomes and three duplex all in the Orlando area. And I had refied, I think, my entire portfolio at least twice on the kind of way up. And that was the nice thing.
And again, that was kind of fortunate with interest rates generally trending down, especially kind of post-COVID, was able to, in most situations, keep my payment the same or lower my payment and pulling a substantial amount of the cash I put into it kind of on the way. But a lot of them I did in a buying off market, not all of them, but that was something that was, I think, really interesting.
I had some really good returns to the ones that I bought off-market, but honestly, some of the ones that were purchased on-market, I was very aggressive with coming in quick when they first hit. And those worked out well for me as well.
Joe Cornwell (10:08.362)
Yeah, no, that's a great tip. Definitely want to be the first to act on, whether it's on or off market, if you can get direct to the seller or if something goes live on the MLS or LoopNet or Crexie. I've had a lot of success being the first one there because it shows you're serious, you're paying attention. And I don't know how true this is, but as an agent, a lot of the agent training they give us is, usually your first offer is your best and your most serious. That's what people, that's kind of a rule of thumb in the business. So yeah, that's great, great advice.
So let's back up a little bit to your W2 and your kind of entrepreneurial side. I know obviously you were investing actively in real estate. You started acquiring some properties over that five year span from 2015 to 2020. But how did you reach financial freedom during that time? And I know that's part of what we want to talk about today. What was that journey like financially?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (11:01.274)
Yeah, it was hard. It was that, you know, I was very, if I had to use one word, disciplined from my own personal spending, you know, your lifestyle creep a lot. I, you know, was making good money, not insane money, again, probably relative to different people, but making good money, but lifestyle creep did not impact me. I was very disciplined with spending. You know, I was a points junkie with traveling and everything, which was nice.
But very disciplined with spending and really from the first time I started investing up until, and even really to a degree now, but up until 2020, 2021, I lived on a pretty set income and funneled everything back into my investments. And I got to 10 units of my own and started getting involved with a couple with Ashcroft a couple of the couple sponsor groups and got to a point really around like 2019, 2020, as I started getting into some of those LPs, I looked up and I'm like, my net passive income, not gross, but my net passive income is right at my W2 salary. And it was such a grind, it was difficult, again, a lot of sacrifices and trade-offs that were made to get to that point.
But man, to wake up and be like, I'm making every month what I make for my W-2. It was an incredible feeling. And again, a lot of people, we talked about kind of the pre-show, can retire and decide to step away. I enjoy what I'm doing and happy to keep going. But that was an incredible, it was a difficult long journey, but it was an incredible feeling.
Joe Cornwell (12:51.25)
Yeah, as I mentioned, I relate to your story so much. I was a police officer before I went full time in real estate. I reached financial freedom at either 30 or 31 right around that same time. I left my law enforcement job. And same situation, right? All this time, I had been working 80 hours a week, business, jobs, real estate. And then saving all my money that I could and living very frugally.
So when I reached financial freedom and I had the ability to retire, my expenses were like $3,000 a month, which are obviously very low compared to the national landscape. And one thing you mentioned I want to spend a little time on is lifestyle creep. So how did that affect you when you were able to, quote, unquote, retire, be financially free, and have that option to work? Has that impacted you at all, or are you still able to live frugally like you did 10 years ago?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (13:48.75)
Yeah, it's now, now I'm almost, I'm having to walk it back, you know, just a little bit sometimes, because like that, that became such a, you know, such a kind of a discipline and a habit. Um, you know, I'm asking us, Hey, do I need this? You know, what are some of the alternatives? Um, but it, it's still, you know, in many ways it's been beneficial just because it's been part of who I am. And I got to a point when it's just a muscle.
Um, early on, it was very you know, especially when you're young, you're, you know, 25, 26, 27. I lived in the town that I grew up in for both high schools I went to and college. And, um, you know, there, there's things that you, you know, there's trade-offs or sacrifices, um, but, you know, I'm happy I would do it all over again. Um, but it, it became just kind of this muscle that got built up. And so now again, I almost have to unpack it a little bit and relax sometimes, but, um, it's been.
You know, it's, I would much rather have to, you know, consciously loosen the range a little bit from a spending standpoint, then, then the alternative. And so, you know, I'm, it's, it's now I'm having to think like, okay, I can't enjoy that. I can't indulge here. You know, there's a couple larger kind of single purchases that I, you know, I've, I've allowed myself to make over the last, you know, last few years. But from a from a day-to-day standpoint, from kind of a, you know, almost like a personal OPEC standpoint, from an expense standpoint, you know, I'm still pretty, pretty disciplined and, you know, don't, haven't, haven't let my expenses creep up too, too much.
Joe Cornwell (15:29.454)
Well, that's great. And you know, it is challenging. I'll say personally for me, when I reached financial freedom, I, same thing, I had built this really robotic habitual frugal type of life. Um, you know, in my past relationship, it caused a lot of, a lot of fights and straining. Cause if your partners aren't on the same page, you know, that's going to create, um, issues. And then, you know, my, my fiance now it's like, she's the opposite.
She's the type, she likes to spend money, she likes to have a good time, and she's much more live for the moment, not playing 50 years down the road, which is kind of where my mind's always at. So she's a good balance for me, because she helps me realize, hey, we got young kids, we need to enjoy life, we need to have experiences, and who cares how much money we have in 30 to 50 years if we're not enjoying life on the road to get there. So there's definitely a balance to be found there, and her and I are kind of good partners in that, because we both have the opposite traits that help balance each other out.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (16:27.718)
Maybe just one note on this, this just came to my mind. I mean, I used to have kind of weekly touch bases with my wife from a, hey, where's our budget at? But I personally need to probably do this a little bit better. Instead of looking at what can we cut back, maybe looking ahead at, okay, now what can we loosen up a little bit now that we've kind of hit this point? So that just came to mind, so I appreciate that, Joe. Thanks.
Joe Cornwell (16:53.258)
Yeah, yeah. So all right, let's talk a little bit about your LP investments. I know you mentioned you've invested in several funds, different operators, different syndication, things like that. And I think in your background, it said you had some kind of unique type of assets you'd invested in. So if you could talk a little bit about the different things you've invested in and why.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (17:11.938)
Yeah, so, you know, I got involved on the LP side, really, for two reasons. One, I did not have the time to continue to find my own deals and, you know, and then really get the, not just get the, you know, get under contract and find the deal, but then the financing and everything goes along with that. So the other was, you know, I was only in Orlando and I wanted to look at getting into other markets.
So initially I got into multifamily. I feel like that's probably most people early on, what they tend to get into. But I got into multifamily and then I looked at diversifying across a couple other asset classes within real estate and even just really PE, but got into retail, car washes, oil and gas. I got one senior living development and ATM.
Joe Cornwell (18:07.55)
Yeah, that's definitely a diverse range there. When I talk to different people who have passive investments on this show, I love to get into your mindset of what do you look for in your LP investments? Is it the operator? Is it their systems? What specifically draws you to making investments?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (18:28.874)
Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, you can kind of look at it one of two ways. There's the asset and then there's the operator. You know, when I look at and not necessarily that one comes before the other, but for me, when I was looking at, you know, the types of assets to get into, you know, multifamily, you know, initially, just because I was so familiar with and I could, you know, better kind of underwrite, you know, those deals and the markets, but I got into retail because of just the supply and demand imbalances.
And, you know, I think what is a little bit of a contrarian approach, and now you're starting to see some more positive news come about, about the, the retail side of the business, just because of how under supplied we are. I got into, you know, the ATM, the ATM space as a way to, and again, a little bit contrarian with people and even for me thinking that, hey, we're going to go to digital currencies, crypto currencies.
But if you look at the margins on the ATM business and the trajectories of those, like they are performing incredibly well because their customer base is the underbanked, unbanked, and it's really a section of the market that people don't pay attention to that has been performing incredibly well, and there's a lot of downside protection there. So kind of in 2020, 2021.
That became kind of an alternative investment for me outside of real estate, which I actually looked at more, not so much from a cash flow standpoint, you know, four or 5% fine from a cash, you know, cash on cash. But you know, I looked at more of the multifamily, even some of the retail as an appreciation play. The ATMs there for me kind of balanced that out with more immediate cash flow. And then, you know, just from a kind of line of thinking.
Again, retail multifamily from a portfolio standpoint. Um, car washes for me and I think they're going to end up getting overbuilt, um, but got into car washes, you know, two, three years ago. And from, um, you know, from an overall kind of industry standpoint, it was very attractive, both from the fact that it's not valued like real estate. It's valued more of a multiple of, of EBITDA than it is on a cap rate, and it provided a little bit of diversification outside of traditional real estate.
And then lastly, with looking at oil and gas for me, this was more of a recent play and honestly, I'm not as well versed in oil and gas as I probably should be to invest, but for me, just the logic there was that if inflation does kind of maintain high and again, just take a little bit of a contrarian approach with the economy not going into recession, oil demand may you know, still being strong, you know, with the economy holding up decently well.
That means that feds not going to lower interest rates, which means they're still going to be a little bit of strain of multifamily oil and gas is going to continue to perform, perform decently well. Thankfully, you know, that, that kind of thesis has held up, but, um, you know, across the board, that's kind of just a quick snapshot of my, you know, the, the logic and the, you know, high level kind of thesis I use for each of those.
For me, and I didn't touch on the operators, that I generally am more of a fan on within each of those, you wanna make sure you're betting on the jockey, typically not the horse. So it's one thing to look at the asset class, but you gotta make sure you're getting in with a good operator, because a great operator can make a bad deal, okay, maybe even great, but a bad operator can make a great deal really underperform.
Joe Cornwell (22:08.014)
Now that makes complete sense. So two things I wanna dive into a little more. The car wash business. Now when you say you're investing in these, I know LP position. Is this syndication funds? Is this like single operators that are going out and buying individual car washes? Are they buying portfolios of car washes? Can you give me some just generalities or examples of what that might look like?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (22:31.094)
Yeah, so it's typically a fund or it is a fund where they're purchasing, I think the lowest that I've been in has been where they bought three, excuse me, three different washes and the biggest was seven among three different funds. What's included in those funds can vary from a mix of just developed and the developers looking to sell it to just underperforming assets in solid markets.
Joe Cornwell (23:03.714)
Now are these like mom and pop car washes, drive-throughs, are these self-service, or are these like the big franchise, like here, I don't know what you have out where you're investing, but here in Cincinnati, Ohio, we have like Mike's Car Washes, Mike's Express all over the place. Like what types of car washes are these?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (23:21.358)
Yeah, they're typically the automatic drive-thrus. They're not the self-service. And the owners are generally mom and pops.
Joe Cornwell (23:32.67)
Okay, gotcha. Okay. Now, what is your expectation return? I mean, you don't have to give a specific for a deal, but when you're looking at a deal like that, how does that contrast to real estate as far as expectations?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (23:46.638)
Yeah, my expectations, and this is also something, you know, when you look at, you know, just from like a normal investor, and I got caught up in this, I think early on too, is you see, you know, you see the marketing decks and the performance and it's like, oh my God, I'm, you know, and I've talked to a number, number of other LPs about this. It's, Hey, I'm guaranteed 20% they put in the marketing deck. So it's, it's not something that, you know, from a return standpoint, I look you know, 15% IRR.
You know, I like to balance that out, whether it's, you know, more cash forward and less appreciation, or, and I like to try to, you know, keep a, a relative balance of that in my portfolio. Um, the, the car washes it again, I think, you know, we're probably okay now, but we, we are eventually at some point going to get over developed, overbuilt. You know, I think that's just the normal curve of, you know, how these things happen and the amount of kind of hype behind them right now. Um, so you know, whether it right now we're getting, you know, good cash return and if we exit soon, or if we exit and, you know, a handful of years, I generally just look across the board for a 15% return.
Joe Cornwell (24:55.734)
Okay, that makes sense. And then my last question on your LP investments are with the ATMs. So how does that work? Because I don't know anything about that specific type of LP investment.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (25:06.882)
Yeah. So basically, with the group that I'm with, they've been in the space for, I think, 15, don't quote me on the term, but roughly 15 years. They've got, and in a way it is a little bit of a real estate play. They've got real estate carved out in thousands of different locations for placement of the ATMs. And what they do is they raise a, not entirely continuous, but they're in a consistent capital raising.
They have a consistent kind of capital raise that goes on to where they're now replacing their outdated ATMs, and they're using the capital to basically just replace ATMs in the same real estate. What they also do is they buy up smaller mom and pop operators, and they get economies of scale because they're one of the largest ATM operators in the country. And so they just incorporate those into their portfolio.
When I looked at starting, I mentioned this earlier, I looked at starting my own ATM business and I was looking at the economics of it and it was pretty remarkable. Heavy cash upfront, you get a ton of cash, not even upfront, just a heavy cash from the actual investment, but not a lot of really upside. Those ATMs are gonna have a life of five to seven years, you can't really resell them, but they throw up a ton of cash flow and it's been, I think they've been performing very well.
Joe Cornwell (26:36.738)
Yeah, so give me an example. Again, I have no idea. So let's just say, and you can break it down. Let's just use this for easy math. I got one ATM here in Cincinnati and a strip mall or whatever. What could I expect just as far as, and let me back up even further. I'm assuming I'm making money off of fees or some other type of fee. I'm not sure what all that it could do. And then what could I expect in cash flow?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (27:04.046)
Yeah, so typically ATM is going to cost between five to a brand new cost, five to six thousand, six thousand bucks. Um, you could expect roughly 50% of that return per year. Um, if you're, and that's roughly what the fund does from a gross standpoint, not, not paid LPs, but, um, roughly 50% of that paid year one. So you could expect over 3000 divided by 12 is, um, roughly, you know, 250 bucks for that ATM, depending on the location. Some will perform a little bit better, some a little bit worse, obviously. And most of the revenue is made on just a per transaction basis. It's a, I think, three, four percent fee.
Joe Cornwell (27:48.062)
Okay, gotcha. Now, and I'm making another assumption here, but I'm a member of the Fifth Third Bank, which is a big regional bank here in Cincinnati, and I think they're spreading out all over the place. But I'm assuming a big bank like that, they own their own ATMs, it's not some company like this fund may have where they're doing third party servicing for a bank. Is that the correct assumption or am I off?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (28:09.23)
Yeah, most of the big banks own their own. Sometimes I think they do a licensing agreement, but yeah, most of the big banks, I know Fifth are decently well, but most of the big banks will own.
Joe Cornwell (28:19.858)
Okay, gotcha. Okay. So a lot of these are the one off kind of mom and pop type of ATMs where it's like you're in you're in a gas station, you're in, you know, a bar or restaurant, whatever, something like that, not necessarily the ones that you the drive through ones that are like, you know, on the banks, or by the bank.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (28:35.994)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the bars, hotels sometimes, yeah.
Joe Cornwell (28:41.73)
Gotcha. Okay. Awesome, man. I appreciate you sharing all your insights into that. Um, are you ready to transition to our best ever lightning round?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (28:49.798)
Yeah, let's do it.
Joe Cornwell (28:51.318)
All right, give me your best ever book recommendation.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (28:55.522)
Yeah, this is I feel like this changes every week right now. It's a fool by randomness by it seemed to live
Joe Cornwell (29:02.334)
Awesome, give me the best every way you like to get back.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (29:06.274)
Time, you know, I like I like helping and coaching mentoring, you know other people whether it's you know Kids from my mama modern UCF guys that were my fraternity just friends Co-workers even now especially on the with the investment space. So I love with coaching mentoring
Joe Cornwell (29:22.85)
Give me a mistake you made in one of your investments and the lesson you learned from it.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (29:27.734)
Yeah, this was this was painful. There's probably two but I did not check the electrical panel on a deal that I bought off market. And it cost me about 15 grand to replace it was a Pacific style panel with aluminum wiring. So federal Pacific. Yep. Yeah. Never again. Never again.
Joe Cornwell (29:46.462)
Federal Pacific. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We deal with those here in Cincinnati all the time. Yeah, yeah, that's a tough one. Definitely wanna get your inspection, no doubt. All right, the last question I have for you is, where can people connect with you, learn more about what you're doing?
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (30:06.902)
Yeah, probably two places. One, I'm LinkedIn. I'm fairly active on LinkedIn. So feel free to reach out, ask me questions. I love interacting, engaging with people, whether it's in my line of work with my W2 or real estate investing. I can talk all day. So connect with me on there.
Joe Cornwell (30:39.042)
Very cool, man. We'll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well. I really appreciate your time and diving into your financial freedom journey, your active and your passive real estate journey. Thank you so much for being here.
Jeremy Kuchenbecker (30:51.63)
Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate having me on Joe. Thanks.
Joe Cornwell (30:54.742)
Best ever listeners, thank you so much for joining in. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us a five-star review and share this episode with someone who may gain value from it. Remember to follow and subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss anything. Thank you all for listening and have a best ever day.
